468 replies to this topic

[Captain Vimes]

Not yet, but... The key part of the Courtenay approach that I like is that they will be able to look the car over and let me know if there's something majorly wrong but equally don't fancy the drive up there and waiting around or the hassle of going back if I change anything. I'm leaning towards Dutch at this point and running the blue vxr (leh) injectors.

[fezzasus]

Having experienced both ECUs first hand (admittedly not owned a CS mapped one), I'm surprised anyone opts to go for a CS map with this as an option. 

 

If you want someone to look over it I may be able to help.

[Andrew aka Stuwy]

unfortunately for me, the CS map is paid for and I cant bring myself to change ECU... "just because"

[oakmere]

Also when you first start mapping the car Peter will be happy to help and can check your results at each stage. He spotted nicks fans were running in reverse so a major issue would be spotted.

[fezzasus]

unfortunately for me, the CS map is paid for and I cant bring myself to change ECU... "just because"

 

Completely agree. If I already had a CS mad I would stick with it, but starting again it makes sense to go for the OBDtuner. It produces a much better map.

[Captain Vimes]

Can anyone confirm whether this bosch water pump will do the job for the Charge cooler:-

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item43c5836ca5

 

I'm sure I've seen others use this type of pump in other SC builds.

[techieboy]

Much smaller than the normal pump by the look of it.

[Captain Vimes]

In terms of performance it looks like it has a brushless motor giving 900l/hr and a pressure of 0.1 bar. The one that people usually go for seems to have a flow rate of 1200l/hr with a pressure of 0.3bar.

 

 

 

From the bosch website(page 122/123 http://www.ipar.nl/a...ktromotoren.pdf );

 

Advantages for your application

The essential advantages of the PAD auxiliary water pump in comparison to pumps, which are driven by carbon-brush mechanically-commutated electric motors, are: 

• A reduction in installation length of 

 up to approx. one third 

• Approx. half the weight

• High delivery rate 

• Longer service life 

• Better efficiency 

• Quieter operation

 

Application examples 

For versatile applications Bosch offers auxiliary water pumps with 

electronically commutated drive motors: 

• Heater circuit 

• Auxiliary heater 

• Charge-air cooling 

• Generator cooling

• Turbocharger cooling 

• Fuel cooling 

• After-run cooling of combustion engines 

• Thermal management of electric vehicles

• Battery and electronic cooling

 

Edited by Captain Vimes, 10 February 2014 - 03:12 PM.

[fezzasus]

Should do, however most applications are front engined so the charger cooler circuit has much less head pressure

[Exmantaa]

If I'm not mistaken there are 2 Bosch PAD pumps . A smaller one and the correct size with 19mm connections. This looks like the small one.

[Captain Vimes]

Thanks - just checked with the seller and he's confirmed that the inlet/outlet is 19mm.

 

Think I'm going to go for this one. I like the fact it's brushless and therefore more reliable plus I'm going to be running a slightly smaller rad than the pro-alloy one so water capacity (head pressure?) will be a little lower than some other setups anyway.

[Captain Vimes]

Just noticed the link above doesn't work, for future reference here it is again:

 

http://www.ipar.nl/a...ktromotoren.pdf

 

Part number I'm looking at is: 0 392 023 004 on page 123.

 

And a previous post from Bargi has all the details for the connector (thanks):-

 

 

If you've brought Bosch Additional Water Pump 0 392 023 004 here or similar the VW connector with code 1J0 973 702 does NOT fit

Spec of plug here

Plug is Tyco Timer Connector Housing 2.8mm, JPT here
Connector and seal can be brought from www.polevolt.co.uk
[font="arial, sans-serif;"]3-8270 J.P.T. female terminals [/font][font="arial, sans-serif;"]1-2.5mm[/font]
[font="arial, sans-serif;"]10658 J.P.T. wire seals. White.[/font][font="arial, sans-serif;"] 1-2.5mm[/font]

For future reference to anyone who hasn't brought their pump yet is don't get hung up on looking for the exact Bosch pump, any decent one will do and as Lee mentions their plenty cheap on fleabay

 

 

[fezzasus]

Doesn't work like that, if anything the head pressure will be higher as the resistance (number of pathways in the radiator) is reduced.

 

That said, we all know the charge cooling setup is generally an overkill for these cars, so i doubt you'll have a problem. Just a shame the seller with the 15 L/min units has doubled the price - i got mine for £60

[Captain Vimes]

It's been a while since I updated the thread as there's been a lot going on but I've been slowly accumulating parts. I don't have much time to do the conversion so I'm thinking of doing it in stages. This will also give me the chance to experience the car in a few states of tune. Step 1 - completed - remove precat - fit regal This made no difference to performance but it sounds much better now. Step 2: - Dutch software - blue vxr injectors and associated wiring - relocate the ecu to the bulkhead ready for sc - CS cone filter and intake pipe - lsj 65mm TB Any thoughts on whether step 2 will make much difference to the power? I'd hope that a good map and raised rev limit should make it a bit perkier... 170bhp? It'll also give me a chance to get used to obd tuner while it's NA.

[fezzasus]

I would agree with 170 bhp as the target.

[vocky]

you will not need bigger injectors or a 68mm TB for 170bhp, not worth doing until SC 

[Captain Vimes]

you will not need bigger injectors or a 68mm TB for 170bhp, not worth doing until SC 

As long as they don't reduce the power I may as well fit them as they're sitting in the garage doing nothing. It'll give me a chance to test they work and play with the software..

[fezzasus]

Worth discussing with Peter. I suspect the throttle and injectors will be less precise at less than full operation compared to the smaller items, so you may end up with something less smooth.

[Firthy]

Hi Captain, I would be interested to see how you get on with this step two! I'm thinking of doing the same thing as well maybe getting the Dutch software as a step 1 Would be interested to hear what gains you can get of a map! If I did go SC I would only go to stage one for reliability.... Contrary to popular belief I've seen quite a few failures of stage two cars. I think if you really use them hard on track they are not quite as reliable as some believe. I would rather sacrifice some power for overall reliability..... Firthy

[Captain Vimes]

Hi Captain, I would be interested to see how you get on with this step two! I'm thinking of doing the same thing as well maybe getting the Dutch software as a step 1 Would be interested to hear what gains you can get of a map! If I did go SC I would only go to stage one for reliability.... Contrary to popular belief I've seen quite a few failures of stage two cars. I think if you really use them hard on track they are not quite as reliable as some believe. I would rather sacrifice some power for overall reliability..... Firthy

 

I'll keep the thread updated with all progress. Ideally I'd do one thing at a time and test the difference that each makes. I expect the map will make a reasonable difference but don't really expect the injectors or TB to do anything - maybe a couple of bhp right at the VERY top of the rev range.

Mark Verboom's site is good for this if you hadn't already found it - https://www.verboom....ster/index.html Mark got 4bhp from the TB when combined with some other mods:

https://www.verboom....0606/index.html

 

 

With regard to reliability - like you I am a little nervous of what it's like with hard track use. What failures have you seen? My gut feel is that the issue is less to do with the amount of power and more to do with the high intake temps from the SC on extended track sessions - the Laminova's are not up to the task. My current thoughts are to either-

 

- Stage 1.5 - change for a larger pulley and aim for 220bhp but still running a chargecooler with dual pass mod. This should bring the charger back into it's efficiency range and allow the laminova's to keep it cool.

- Stage 2 (250 bhp) and add some extra cooling - either Lee's additional cooler or water injection - plus keep the max revs down to something sensible (6500rpm?)

 

I'm also going to run the vxr injectors to ensure that the injectors are not at full duty cycle which should allow some headroom to add more fuel and keep detonation under control.

 

 

 

Edited by Captain Vimes, 20 April 2014 - 06:28 PM.