1145 replies to this topic

[Mangham54]

VW Habanero Orange is one I took a shine to the other day.

[Mopeytitan]

Will hopefully be able to use him as a guinea pig

Good idea, assuming his paintshop finishes it in the next 18 months.

His is currently at the paint shop. Lol so hopefully it should be done in 18 months

[Graeme Lambert]

VW Habanero Orange is one I took a shine to the other day.

 

Yup nearly shortlisted it myself when on the launch. Then saw some pics of a car in habanero in uk light and changed my mind...

 

If only i lived somewhere where it was permanently sunny

[Mopeytitan]

What you were saying about in the shade the colour losing its lustre that's how I feel about the colour I've got. Looks amazing in the sun but in the shade looks crap. Mines going back in to get painted in a couple of months! mainly because I fcuked up haha.

[Graeme Lambert]

I may end up with boring old safe grey at this point... which will at least please Naomi

[Mopeytitan]

I may end up with boring old safe grey at this point... which will at least please Naomi

What about volcanic orange?

[Graeme Lambert]

 

I may end up with boring old safe grey at this point... which will at least please Naomi

What about volcanic orange?

 

 

Which is the colour doctorfrag couldn't get his VX painted right? Sounds like a no go.

[Mopeytitan]

Yh true but light have just been the paint shop being funny about it.

[Graeme Lambert]

Yh true but light have just been the paint shop being funny about it.

 

To be honest, I don't think it's far from sakhir orange and suffers similar problems in low/dull light

[Exmantaa]

 

Who's "Bill"?
 
But for a Harrop that's a surprisingly lowish rpm where his makes the 398 max power.
(but from that number a similar build 2.0 should make 360-ish...)

Previously know as Westkenbiscuit on the Saab b207 thread

 

 

Looked there and according to the info there:

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]3. Westkenbrit. Vocky fettled B207 (ported etc..), 2.2 crank, forged internals, siemens injectors, stage 2 cams (unless advised otherwise by Vocky) uprated clutch, dutch software, harrop, Pro alloy chargecooler, and baffled fuel tank, uprated fuel pump. 350+[/color]

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Now with a full 3" exhaust system => 398BHP... (Tullet 3" mani + custom 3" double muffler system?)[/color]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]He's still on the Dutch software I assume? then you could compare the dyno plot with the internal OBD road power measurements.  [/color]

Edited by Exmantaa, 10 July 2015 - 01:56 PM.

[Graeme Lambert]

 

 

Who's "Bill"?
 
But for a Harrop that's a surprisingly lowish rpm where his makes the 398 max power.
(but from that number a similar build 2.0 should make 360-ish...)

Previously know as Westkenbiscuit on the Saab b207 thread

 

 

Looked there and according to the info there:

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]3. Westkenbrit. Vocky fettled B207 (ported etc..), 2.2 crank, forged internals, siemens injectors, stage 2 cams (unless advised otherwise by Vocky) uprated clutch, dutch software, harrop, Pro alloy chargecooler, and baffled fuel tank, uprated fuel pump. 350+[/color]

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Now with a full 3" exhaust system => 398BHP... (Tullet 3" mani + custom 3" double muffler system?)[/color]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]He's still on the Dutch software I assume? then you could compare the dyno plot with the internal OBD road power measurements.  [/color]

 

 

I think Bill was on Dutch software, but I have a feeling that's he now on the EMU Ecu. MBR should be able to confirm though

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);][font="helvetica;"]He's still on the Dutch software I assume? then you could compare the dyno plot with the internal OBD road power measurements.  [/color][/font]

I'm sure bill we be doing some mapping soon as it Dosent look like he has done much fuel learning

But I will urge him to do power runs as soon as possible to see the accuracy

But which will be right obd or the RR

Now there's a conversation topic
😜

Edited by CHILL Gone DUTCH, 10 July 2015 - 02:04 PM.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

He sent me his file the other day From obd tuner Unless it's a old file

Edited by CHILL Gone DUTCH, 10 July 2015 - 02:02 PM.

[Exmantaa]

On most of the boost levels we are dealing with here you shouldn't need to go under 12 in my experience if you keep the charge temp reasonable. However if charge temps change significantly that is what a correction table is for, if the temp goes high for some reason it goes richer.  

 

We are only talking about 0.8-0.9 bar of boost, not like a stg 4-5 turbo at 1.3-1.6bar boost.

 

Ehhh... A harrop (2.0) engine will typically see around 1.3 bar boost with a big 80mm pulley, depending on how well the head and exhaust flow. A 2.2 probably a bit less.

(we once logged 1.58bar boost with a clogged cat and no power at Zandvoordt)

 

Charge temps with the above on sustained full blast and the dual pass/PA cooler system; think 80-90°C.    And only corrected for if the MAP sensor is modded to a TMAP system...

 

As said before, most cheap-ish Wideband systems can deviate quite a lot around 12AFR. so keep it safe. (and monitor for knock)

[Graeme Lambert]

Back to my car for a second though, I've just spoke to Sam from Jamsport who mapped the car and cleared up a couple of things.

 

I don't have AFR, ignition or boost logs at the moment. Obviously these are all ok, but long story short they're about to move premises and onto a new dyno, which will allow them to log these better. For now, all the logging and monitoring of this information is done within the ECU.

 

Regarding the scale on the graph, it isn't entirely accurate. It was set at the same ratio as when Sam mapped Bills car, to allow that comparison. So where it shows the peak power is made at approx 5,750rpm, it is actually making this around 4-500rpm later at 6,250-6,350rpm. The cut off, where it is revved too, is actually at 7,200rpm, not the 6,650rpm it shows on the plot. 7,200rpm was used simply because Sam felt there was no need to rev further since it was already dropping off.

 

Due to what Sam suspects is a geometry issue - I'm not sure if the car has ever been set up since the suspension etc has been bolted back on - he said it felt like the left wheel was wheelspinning slightly. He could hear a squeal when backing off, as if it was gripping again. The boost does tail off slightly towards the top-end, but not enough to warrant further investigation in his opinion, so while he agrees it could be belt slip, it wasn't his first thought.

 

I have confirmed that the dyno does measure in lb/ft, so this engine did make a peak of near 350lb/ft between around 4,000rpm to 4,700rpm (adjusted for the scale being out of sync). In new money that's 475Nm....  

 

I'm slightly happier to hear all of this, as it at least suggests that the power is delivered slightly further up the rev range, which is more in line with what we are expecting.

 

Having discussed it with him and Matt, the plan is to adjust the cam timing. I definitely don't know much about cams, but looking at it all I can't help but think the timing is slightly out and they are making all their power in the mid-range, rather than further up as expected. So hopefully it'll allow both the bhp and torque line to smooth out their rate of rise and progressively increase a little further towards the redline.  

 

Hopefully that makes sense, and clears a few things up. And hopefully we can get the cams re-timed ASAP, and maybe even try out a 3-inch manifold to check whether that is having an effect or not also.

[Exmantaa]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);][font="helvetica;"]He's still on the Dutch software I assume? then you could compare the dyno plot with the internal OBD road power measurements.  [/color][/font]

I'm sure bill we be doing some mapping soon as it Dosent look like he has done much fuel learning

But I will urge him to do power runs as soon as possible to see the accuracy

But which will be right obd or the RR

Now there's a conversation topic

 

He should do some power measurements exactly as it was measured on the RR, without any additional fuel learning etc.  That's the only way you could comparethe OBD measurements with these plots.

 

Not saying which one is right ... They're just numbers.

[Graeme Lambert]

He sent me his file the other day From obd tuner Unless it's a old file

 

Ok my bad. Must still be on OBD then. I just thought he might have changed since Sam was used for some of the mapping, as I know Sam is particularly familiar with the EMU ecu

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

350 lb ft does need applauding That's a lot

[Graeme Lambert]

350 lb ft does need applauding That's a lot

 

surprised me too

 

Now if it's the cam timing, and we can shift that up the rev range, we'll be good

[Graeme Lambert]

350 lb ft does need applauding That's a lot

 

surprised me too

 

Now if it's the cam timing, and we can shift that up the rev range, we'll be good