158 replies to this topic

[Exmantaa]

 

At idle all other cars sit about 10% open while the problematic ones sit at 17%

Balls, this will teach me to assume mine was the same and not check.

Peter said my TB is actually more closed than normal. Looking at my logs my TB is around 6% open at idle. (Assuming pos throttle valve is the position of the TB butterfly?)




PS logs sent Chill.

 

 

If your throttle is more closed than nornal, you have an airleak! (although 6% sounds not too far off. but @900rpm... )

 

Manifold > head

injector seals 4x

SC > manifold

TB > SC

(T)MAP sensor > manifold

Edited by Exmantaa, 20 August 2014 - 04:06 PM.

[Chris P Duck]

Would a vacuum leak explain poor starting with no other symptoms?

I have new injectors to go in anyway.

SC to manifold always looked a little odd to me (just need some time to whip it off and have a proper look)
Where the bypass part of the SC joins the manifold looks like it isn't sitting square, it looks further apart on one side than the other and slightly off centre. How this can be the case unless something's warped though I don't know.



Can anyone take a pic of the same point so I can see what it's meant to look like plz.

[Bargi]

We really need a TB swap (ideally one off a car running Dutch ECU) I've had the problem since using it and fitted new front and rear lambda, crank sensor, gone from MAP to TMAP, VXR Blue to Siemens injectors, std to Saab head. Not much else I can change really

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

For chrisPduck



If chris wants to come back to mine to try my throttle bodies we can try it but doesn't the car have to be cold ??

I suppose I could try his on mine

Edited by CHILL Gone DUTCH, 20 August 2014 - 04:59 PM.

[Captain Vimes]

I've had a look at the pipe work, the fpr pipe comes off the end of the rail, back and into the inlet manifold. Also I can see the sensor on the manifold the part number is 0261230042. Not sure if you can tell what bar rating it is from there? Also I send Peter my data and he came back with this which could be relevant? "I did see you have a P1512 (Throttle Position Minimum Learning not completed) at one point in time. This is the ECU complaining it did not complete the throttle position learning which could have a negative influence on the starting behavior." This is all completely over my head so I'm hoping you boffins can help...

Mine had this error code straight after fitting the sc but it cleared itself and my cold start is great. So maybe a red herring.. Ps. Standard fuel pump here..

Edited by Captain Vimes, 20 August 2014 - 05:14 PM.

[smiley]

How this can be the case unless something's warped though I don't know.



 

 

Maybe you managed to squeeze the dipstick bracket extention that is normally bolted on top of the rear screw between the manifold and SC?

[Chris P Duck]

If chris wants to come back to mine to try my throttle bodies we can try it but doesn't the car have to be cold ?? I suppose I could try his on mine

Cheers Chris, however I'm starting to think my problem is unrelated to Pete and Bargi's and may just be a vacuum leak. Even more so after seeing your pic (thanks for that) world of difference between them, you can't even see the green gasket on yours! I'll try reseating the SC first, if no joy there I'll be taking you or FLD up on your offers. Shouldn't need to start from cold as a quick look at the butterfly position at idle should tell me all I need to know!

[Chris P Duck]

* Assuming I don't have 2 probs and when solving the vacuum leak the butterfly moves from 6% to 17% Still one step at a time

[Exmantaa]

Would a vacuum leak explain poor starting with no other symptoms?

I have new injectors to go in anyway.

SC to manifold always looked a little odd to me (just need some time to whip it off and have a proper look)
Where the bypass part of the SC joins the manifold looks like it isn't sitting square, it looks further apart on one side than the other and slightly off centre. How this can be the case unless something's warped though I don't know.



Can anyone take a pic of the same point so I can see what it's meant to look like plz.

 

Ow, that is NOT good! When fitted properly, that green seal should not or barely visible between bypass and SC! Better check the SC mounting! Did you ever do a brake cleaner spray test to search for airleaks?

What (dual pass?) endplate have you fitted?

(There is a problem with the ZZP newly casted dual pass plates in combination with the bigger Harrop charger, but the smaller M62 does not reach that far.)
 

Edit; just saw the other pic and your's should look like that. Let us know what you find.

Edited by Exmantaa, 20 August 2014 - 11:16 PM.

[pete-r]

Hi guys, I sent Peter some log file data and he's come back thinking my issue is probably not TB or ECU related and more a simpler mechanical issue with the fuel system such as the FPR, the pump-tank pipe, or the pump itself. That sounds right because of the valve not containing fuel when the pump is priming, or holding it after the engine is turned off. If the pump worked it should do the latter, unless there's an air or fuel leak, and should do the former unless there's an electrical, air or fuel issue again? Took the car out tonight for a run and my mate drove a bit as he's on my insurance. From the passenger seat I had the occasional whiff of petrol, but that's maybe because Neil opened up the inspection panel to fit the new pump and while there is a plate attached to the original access panel over the new opening, it's not secured to the bulkhead and is flapping around on one side??? I'm going to get a pressure tester on the valve and see what's going on next.

Edited by pete-r, 20 August 2014 - 11:31 PM.

[pete-r]

Also regarding the sc to manifold join, mine looks much tighter than yours.

You can see in this engine bay pic there's no sign of the green gasket between the parts.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

I've never had whiffs of fuel unless I was at the petrol station

[pete-r]

I've never had whiffs of fuel unless I was at the petrol station

That's what makes me think my issue as a more basic thing at the moment.

[FLD]

I have a spare OE fuel pump too (just the pump) if it helps anyone.  I swapped it out for a walbro but its a good pump.

[Chris P Duck]

I've never had whiffs of fuel unless I was at the petrol station

That's what makes me think my issue as a more basic thing at the moment.

Though I still don't understand how something like that could be fine on the CS map? I'm assuming the amount of time the pump spends priming when the ignition is turned on is controlled by the ECU, is this different on OBD to CS?

[smiley]

If i read back this post, pete-r's car was NA, running obdtuner 1.0.

Then it was converted to SC with obdtuner 2.0, with some other work done also.

 

Where does the CS basemap come from?

 

 

Edited by smiley, 21 August 2014 - 08:39 AM.

[pete-r]

To confirm I've never had a CS map on my car, I was running OEM, then dutch NA, then dutch SC. Only ran the NA so I could drive the car to Joe and Vocky and drive back after the conversion. Car started fine on NA Dutch.

Edited by pete-r, 21 August 2014 - 08:41 AM.

[smiley]

Pete-r are you still running on the SC basemap Peter put in your ecu, or did Joe and Vocky fiddle with the client software in any way? 

If not, Peter has asked you for specs on your SC conversion so he could prepare the basemap. What did you email him exactly on specs?

 

If you look in your engine bay near that blue silicone hose, can you confirm that there is no sensor plugged in between air filter and throttlebody? 

 

[pete-r]

I'm running the base map after a learning session which I sent to Peter and he may have tweaked.

This is my configuration data I sent to Peter.


> > - Engine type:
> Z22SE 2.2

> > - Engine compression ratio:
> OEM

> > - Desired rev limiter rpm:
> OEM

> > - SC type:
> Eaton M62

> > - SC pulley size:
> 3.35inch

> > - Throttle body:
> 68mm

> > - Air filter/inlet setup:
> Pipercross cone RS500 with straight silicon hose

> > - EGR valve:
> Deleted cheater and blank installed

> > - Injector type:
> LSJ green Siemens as previously discussed (part number 12790827)

> > - Charge cooling setup:
> Laminova single pass and pro alloy front radiator, alloy fabrications header tank

> > - Exhaust setup:
> OEM manifold, OEM cat, larini exhaust

> > - Cam shafts:
> OEM

> > - Fuel pressure:
> OEM

> > - Fuel pressure regulator connected to boost:
> Connected to the inlet manifold

> > - Manifold Air Pressure sensor number and position:
> LSJ TMAP sensor on the inlet manifold

> > - Use Temperature sensor in TMAP for measuring intake air temperature:
> TMAP

> > - Other like cylinder head ported or other important info:
> All standard.

There's a pipe going into the blue hose, is that what you mean? You can see it here mid way up the hose on the right,

Edited by pete-r, 21 August 2014 - 08:57 AM.

[smiley]

There's a pipe going into the blue hose, is that what you mean? You can see it here mid way up the hose on the right,

 

Yes that little white thingy could be the old temp sensor. (but it does not hurt if the actual sensor is still in, as it's not used when tmapped)

Is there any chance you could check if it's still actually plugged in with wiring?