125 replies to this topic

[haggi961]

Just wondering what information has anybody found on the z22se engine liners. I've read around and talked to a few people that 400bhp seems to be the limit but not got any real evidence to back it up. It's a subject we haven't really talked about yet and with a lot of cars going harrop it's worth knowing are limits. The Americas seem to run there cars at 450bhp on the standard liners but there only doing short drag runs so not the same as us thrashing it on track. I know the supercharger is taking away 30bhp but are engines are not then again it's torque that kills the liners? Is there any information on anyone blowing there engine in America?

[FLD]

This link had some info but is broken for me.  Wanna check it?

http://turbovmax.com...om:80/PDF/Birth of the Ultimate Import Fighter.pdf

 

 

[The Batman]

Getting over 400 will be the problem because off the intake manifold

[smiley]

Dilbert manifold with a rotrex system

[slindborg]

The mild issue with the power to break things at the higher levels is that they just dropped nitrous in till stuff broke... No hint on how sustained the power was or how gently they added it. The lower levels are acceptable but at higher numbers its a bit of a grey area

[haggi961]

Getting over 400 will be the problem because off the intake manifold

Mines pulling 400 easy on the Dutch software with good inlet temps. So if I add the 30bhp for the supercharger then my engine is doing 430bhp.

[haggi961]

[The Batman]

Nice, had it on rollers? Let's have a look at the graph please! Need to catch up on your build! What peak intake temp did you see?

[The Batman]

Awesome what pulley size you running? Intake temp isn't as high as I thought it would be!!

[haggi961]

2.9 atm but going to fit bigger maybe 3 or 3.1 to bring the power down. Just say the software is not 100% and my graphs are not perfect due to a leaking injector but I'm not far off that figure as most of my runs were around 400pk and I've still not done ignition setup so I could improve the power a little more if I wanted which I don't.

Edited by haggi961, 09 April 2014 - 07:05 PM.

[Bumblebee]

How come your bringing the power down?

[slindborg]

It's not linear... Because it costs 30bhp to make 250bhp at the fly doesn't mean it only costs 30bhp to make 400 at the fly. Aimy, power isn't everything, you might understand one day

[ArticMonkey]

Isn't it obvious with the thread title? The liners are near their predicted limit.

[haggi961]

The mild issue with the power to break things at the higher levels is that they just dropped nitrous in till stuff broke... No hint on how sustained the power was or how gently they added it. The lower levels are acceptable but at higher numbers its a bit of a grey area

What would you say the higher and lower levels are?

[FLD]

From what I've read (and it is just from that link and cobalt net etc) the liners aren't that bad.  The build book says 400 bhp but further investigation suggests that its something about the block head interface that becomes a bit dodgy.  It was something to do with cylinder pressures raising the head and the cylinders move / break.  Hence why the gen 3 block has top bracing and is good for much higher power with similar liners.  People have found that thicker head studs and fire rings help keep everything clamped down and aligned.  That original link suggested that arp studs and the copper gasket with fire rings is good to 600 bhp. 

 

If you do liner a block then there have been problems with the darton blocks breaking in half.  The machining can weaken the block leading to the break.  The dartons also suffer vertical slip causing catastrophic damage too.  There's a 'bates' liner which is a 3mm thick nodular iron liner but I'd guess this will suffer from the head lifting issues.  I've found a place that will do a similar liner to the bates one but haven't done anything about it yet. 

 

Obviously this all comes from reading other peoples failures and reasoning over how to solve it etc.  My thought is that finding a gen3 block would be the best way.

[fezzasus]

Not bad inlet temps, is that the first run?

[Bumblebee]

It's not linear... Because it costs 30bhp to make 250bhp at the fly doesn't mean it only costs 30bhp to make 400 at the fly. Aimy, power isn't everything, you might understand one day

If I was chasing power I wouldn't be selling my Garrett

[haggi961]

From what I've read (and it is just from that link and cobalt net etc) the liners aren't that bad.  The build book says 400 bhp but further investigation suggests that its something about the block head interface that becomes a bit dodgy.  It was something to do with cylinder pressures raising the head and the cylinders move / break.  Hence why the gen 3 block has top bracing and is good for much higher power with similar liners.  People have found that thicker head studs and fire rings help keep everything clamped down and aligned.  That original link suggested that arp studs and the copper gasket with fire rings is good to 600 bhp.    If you do liner a block then there have been problems with the darton blocks breaking in half.  The machining can weaken the block leading to the break.  The dartons also suffer vertical slip causing catastrophic damage too.  There's a 'bates' liner which is a 3mm thick nodular iron liner but I'd guess this will suffer from the head lifting issues.  I've found a place that will do a similar liner to the bates one but haven't done anything about it yet.    Obviously this all comes from reading other peoples failures and reasoning over how to solve it etc.  My thought is that finding a gen3 block would be the best way.

Thanks for that and some intresting points. I have apr head bolts fitted so that's ok. I also have the Saab gasket fitted but not sure if it's copper so need to find out. What's these fire rings you talk about?

[haggi961]

Not bad inlet temps, is that the first run?

No had a good few runs before it. You can see my inlet temp got up higher on the first power run due to my sitting in a lay by for about 15 minutes with my car running looking over my data. I need to pick your brains soon if that's ok with the pcv?

[FLD]

fire rings are a stainless ring that sits in a groove machined around the top of each liner.  Its supposed to dig into the gasket to provide a proper tight seal and help keep the cylinder aligned.  I cant remember the exact amounts but the liners are left a few thou proud of the block and the rings are  few thou proud of that.  Copper gaskets are GM racing ones from the US and are reusable.

 

ETA:

Edited by FLD, 09 April 2014 - 08:25 PM.