118 replies to this topic

[Mattias]

I think I have the same problem, rattling on lift off that goes away when I dip the clutch.I can also hear it when standing still and in neutral and then it also goes away when I dip the clutch. I fitted a quaife but that should have nothing to do with it since its there when standing still. I also fitted CS lightened flywheel and clutch so that is one thing in common. As was mentioned it could be the release bearing touching the clutch spring and if that is it then the question is if the CS flywheel has the wrong offset? I wish I had measured it before I fitted it... There could be a way to test if this is the problem: what about putting a distance ie sheet metal shim between box and engine and see if the sound goes away. And if it does it's most likely the flywheel that's to thick.. What flywheel and clutch from CS do you have? These are the ones I fitted: Lightweight Flywheel: 2.0 Turbo Z20LET Z22SE X20XEV C20LET Application - 2.0 16v Turbo Z20LET CSBSF 1 £212.50 Uprated Clutch: VX220 Turbo Z20LET - Cover and Disc Option - WITH Hydraulic Slave Cylinder UCCZ20 1 £458.25

Edited by Mattias, 10 May 2014 - 08:40 PM.

[Nev]

As was mentioned it could be the release bearing touching the clutch spring and if that is it then the question is if the CS flywheel has the wrong offset?

 

This is sounding more likely now.

 

To the OP: The way to test for this is to loosen all your gearbox bolts that attached the gearbox to the block, such that you can insert a 2 or 3 mm spacer (say sheet metal strips) between the box and the block. Then start the engine; if the sound disappears or abates/changes that is fair evidence of clutch + flywheel being too proud or perhaps that the slave cylinder is too long somehow.

Edited by Nev, 10 May 2014 - 08:56 PM.

[Wreelybro]

I think I have the same problem, rattling on lift off that goes away when I dip the clutch.I can also hear it when standing still and in neutral and then it also goes away when I dip the clutch. I fitted a quaife but that should have nothing to do with it since its there when standing still. I also fitted CS lightened flywheel and clutch so that is one thing in common. As was mentioned it could be the release bearing touching the clutch spring and if that is it then the question is if the CS flywheel has the wrong offset? I wish I had measured it before I fitted it... There could be a way to test if this is the problem: what about putting a distance ie sheet metal shim between box and engine and see if the sound goes away. And if it does it's most likely the flywheel that's to thick.. What flywheel and clutch from CS do you have? These are the ones I fitted: Lightweight Flywheel: 2.0 Turbo Z20LET Z22SE X20XEV C20LET Application - 2.0 16v Turbo Z20LET CSBSF 1 £212.50 Uprated Clutch: VX220 Turbo Z20LET - Cover and Disc Option - WITH Hydraulic Slave Cylinder UCCZ20 1 £458.25

Interesting that you have a kit from CS too. (Lightened Flywheel and Uprated Clutch kit and CS Supplies Slave. (Sachs) My engine is a B207 Saab but running a Z22SE crank so effectively a 2.2 NA. Not sure it's going to be the release bearing as noise would not go away when clutch is depressed. I spent the day up at Matthew Bentley Racing today along with a few .org members and we didn't really come up with a diagnosis apart from it's either the clutch flywheel combo or gearbox. Noise in mine seems to get more prominent when it's hot. I'm sure LeeVX2.2 or Matt Bentley will add to this. Mine happens in all gears but gets nosier as you go through the gears. However after 2500rpm's noise tails off but can still hear in the background. Now could be wrong clutch plate and spring weight together with light flywheel not creating enough mass, thus not giving enough load on the gears making them chatter.. But hey I'm no gearbox guru!! Or could be bearings in gearbox and reburb hasn't been done right..... I'm as a loss!!!!!!

[Mattias]

I have to correct my thinking, I went out to my garage and had a look at my old release bearing, and the way it works is that it is always depressed and has a spring that pushes it towards the clutch spring fingers, when the clutch is depressed it moves to it's "free state" as it is when the gearbox is not mounted to the engine. This leads me to belive that I haven't bleed the clutch correctly, I bleed it like you do with brakes by depressing the pedal. But now I think it should be done the other way around by opening the bleed nipple when releasing the cluch so the clutch fingers puch the release bearing and forces the air out of the slave cylinder. But could air in the slave cylinder cause it to rattle? Maybe, the air won't stop the cylinder to compress further because air is easy to compress and brake fluid is not... I will try this theory tomorrow and hope for the best I thought it was the main shaft bearing until I read that you had similar problem even after fitting of new ones but seemed strange since the box was fine before I took it apart. Let's hope for an easy fix

[vocky]

you should not try and bleed the clutch with that method, it will allow air into the system.

 

What I noticed about the Courtenay fast road clutches is that they are well out of balance, the Helix uprated version is better balanced, but even that requires further balancing to make perfect. Vibration Free balanced one of each type for me recently and that is where I got the info from.

[slindborg]

100% oem cars make the noises to an extent too..... So adding sh*t modded parts just makes it worse, whatever the issue is.

[vocky]

Just to add, I always drill the three holes which are too small for the mounting studs on the clutch cover to 8.0mm when fitting them to the TTV flywheel, I wonder what size you guys drilled yours at ?

 

My guess is the clutch is way out of balance if the holes were drilled too big and thus are causing excess vibration.

Edited by vocky, 10 May 2014 - 10:04 PM.

[Wreelybro]

Just to add, I always drill the three holes which are too small for the mounting studs on the clutch cover to 8.0mm when fitting them to the TTV flywheel, I wonder what size you guys drilled yours at ?   My guess is the clutch is way out of balance if the holes were drilled too big and thus are causing excess vibration.

Can't remember but was a snug fit.. Vocky fancy having a listen see what you think?

[vocky]

I normally have to force the cover onto the studs, thats how tight it needs to be.

[OneYet]

I got the same sound (at least I got a "sound") when I release the throttle. 

I changed to CS flywheel and the "race-clutch"  this winter. 

[Exmantaa]

This rattling is a typical F23 design problem... Some have it worse than others =>

 

http://en.wikipedia....23_transmission

 

 

 

 

[Mattias]

I did some googling now and it seems like this is a common problem when fitting light weight flywheel, not just for F23. This tread has some interesting posts: http://forums.vwvort...86181-Purchased

[slindborg]

This rattling is a typical F23 design problem... Some have it worse than others =>   http://en.wikipedia....23_transmission        

If only someone had been saying that.....

[Wreelybro]

Mmmm interesting mine is really loud just ask Lee or MBR. Not sure I'm willing to 'put up with it.' thereust be a solution as Lee is running a CS flywheel and does not have this noise.

[techieboy]

Yep, not a sound out of my CS flywheel and uprated clutch either.

 

May well be imagining it, but I'm sure I read somewhere in the past that some replacement/aftermarket flywheel bolt heads were too tall/wide (they may have been ARP's) and fouled slightly against the clutch plate. Like I said, may have imagined that and even if I didn't it might be a red herring.

 

Makes me nervous about the new B207->F23 flywheels we've just signed up for.

[Kieran McC]

I have a light fly wheel fitted it is a VVT and a uprated clutch on B207 with a M32 gearbox no unusual noise issues with it.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

I don't no if it's relevant but I fitted a paddle clutch and have no rattling, Just thought I mention it Chill

[Graeme Lambert]

Makes me nervous about the new B207->F23 flywheels we've just signed up for.

No need to be nervous about something that's just going to sit in your garage Matt!

[Wreelybro]

So I've deccided to take it again, hell why not it's only been 4 times already what's a 5th....

 

I'm going to swap out the flywheel/Clutch Plate and Cover for my origional one to see if it's that causing the issues....

 

It's a bit extreme but the only way I can think of this isn't going to cost me anything...

 

So far have the undertrays off but not has time to do any more..

 

Also I will need a replacment Gearbox mount nut and bolt if anyone has one.. the long one that goes through the mount and bolts to the subframe as mine is fubar!

[leevx2.2]

I think mine is making the same noise havnt drove it for a while and sounded very noisy :-(