443 replies to this topic

[Rally]

Water injection Bargi. You know it makes sense

[fezzasus]

 

Not sure how an inter cooler post SC is necessarily better than a charge cooler.. Given the mid engine layout in the VX with restricted airflow to an inter cooler?

I'm not sure either Steve but I'm not impressed with the laminovas and not being able to run the pcv system as it was intended for fear of clogging them up. Also there would be a weight saving.

 

 

You'll clog an intercooler too as any PCV return will have to be before the supercharger (and therefore before the intercooler/laminova) to prevent the crankcase from being pressurised. Have a look at the truck oil separators and see if there's an electronic one. That will be the best way of separating oil from the gasses

[Bargi]

So confirmed Laminovers were clean at time the head was swapped and PCV is still closed.

[Bargi]

The infrared thermometers any good with liquid?

Here

 

[fezzasus]

Something like this would be more accurate http://www.ebay.co.u...=item58a12b49be

[Bargi]

Something like this would be more accurate http://www.ebay.co.u...=item58a12b49be

 

yeah but it doesn't have a...

 

[VXT Tim]

 Mine has a ....

[Bargi]

Just another day tuning the VX

[Goosenka]

nice carpet

[Bargi]

I'll post the graphs tomorrow but even with ambient temps at 20-23 degrees the charge cooler water never got over 40degrees. In fact at the end of the run I let the car sit for 5mins and intake was 90 degrees and charge cooler water was 37.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Did you get the air inlet temps at the same time ?

[NickB787]

Need to know the temps and under what atmospheric conditions, number of runs ect, Lee has got after installing the sandwich plate, wish I had the time and money to sort a new manifold out....

Edited by NickB777, 21 June 2014 - 08:51 PM.

[Bargi]

IAT 90, charge cooler water 36

[Bargi]

And that's after driving in traffic, no WOT or hard driving

[alexb]

You would expect the coolant to not reach very high temperatures. At 6000 RPM and 0.8 bar boost, you push about 15 kgs of air through the manifold per minute. You also push about 5 liters of coolant through the laminovas. Assuming most of the coolant is water, that has a 4.2 times larger heat capacity than air. At 0.8 bar boost and assuming adiabetic compression, temperature of the charge increases by a little over 50C. With the laminovas working at 100% efficiency, the coolant temperature would increase by just under 40C (cooling down the charge to ambient). But the laminova don't work at 100% efficiency, so you expect less.

 

Running at lower RPM or less boost, just decreases the amount of air flowing through the manifold. The amount of coolant flowing through the laminovas is a constant. So you expect the coolant temperature to go up even less.

 

So far the theoretical department, not taking into account any real world effects of coolant heating due to the tank being in the engine bay or such. A final word from the world of theory, it would make a lot of sense to get the coolant temperature down to below ambient. I think sometimes blocks of ice are used to do that. That will only last for a short while obviously. A small airco compressor (efficiency way above 100%!) could do the same trick. Cooling the coolant below ambient I mean. With some intelligence you could even make that proportional to engine load (lots of latency so you have to be careful). Water injection is another, and more simple, solution.

[smiley]

I did a drive yesterday also (tmap on a stage II B207 with dual pass) It was 24 dergees outside temperature out there

After getting it out of the garage and setting up the phone, iat was allready at 60 degrees celcius.

After some fresh wind it got back to 40

During the drive and hitting some trafficlights, it was between 40 and 65.

 

I was most amazed to see how fast it would climb at a a traffic light. (from 40 to 60 in 15 sec)

 

I can easily read out the iat via my android phone using torque and a bluetooth obd dongle, so i'll do a few more sessions incl track.

 

 

Edited by smiley, 22 June 2014 - 07:18 AM.

[Scuffers]

you kind of not understanding what you are measuring to some extent.

 

think about the airpath when the engine in on very light load and the SC by-pass is open.

 

 

[Nev]

Considering the number of you that now have superchargers, it surprises me that nobody has done a ground up design using a remote air/water charge cooler system (that is fed charged air via pipework). Surely if 5 or 10 of you teamed up and paid for the R&D of someone like Dave Hardwick it would be cost effective?

Edited by Nev, 22 June 2014 - 07:27 AM.

[Scuffers]

take more than 5-10 to make it stack up...

 

I looked at making a new setup for the Honda's, but the time you have a drawing, test piece (Rapid prototype), pattern, test castings, machine programming, etc. you have already spent well north of £15K without paying for any design/drawing time.

 

at this point, you then have 1 prototype casting.

 

to take this to market, you then have to get them cast, machined, anodised (or some other coating) then fabricated intercoolers to mount into them, etc etc... it's suddenly become an expensive project.

 

I worked out for the Honda the min run to make the unit costs sensible was 100+, and by sensible, you were looking at just under £1K for the manifold/IC, NOT including the supercharger, etc etc etc.

 

don;t get me wrong, I love doing this kind of thing, but economically, it just does not add  up.

[smiley]

you kind of not understanding what you are measuring to some extent.

 

think about the airpath when the engine in on very light load and the SC by-pass is open.

 

 

 

Yes, you explained that earlier in the thread, and what i'm seeing is confirming that.

I'm just looking at it semi real time, and the rapid fluctuation was surprising to me. 

 

On track, i am asuming i will also reach those 90 that a lot of people are talking about.

I'm so getting water injection.