443 replies to this topic

[smiley]

I hear you Scuffers.

If only you knew what us SC people were coming from before obdtuner, you would be truly shocked.

 

 

[chris_uk]

catfish 

 

[slindborg]

smiley, on 23 Jun 2014 - 3:58 PM, said:

I hear you Scuffers.

If only you knew what us SC people were coming from before obdtuner, you would be truly shocked.

 

 

 

 

THIS!!!

 

While the OBD might not be perfect, its still 'better' than what was.... "ohh we think this hex value will change the injector fuel rate".... erm no OEM would have a simple injector flow rate setting the way it was assumed by the other chooners

[alexb]

Exmantaa, on 23 Jun 2014 - 2:40 PM, said:

 

alexb, on 23 Jun 2014 - 1:48 PM, said:

 

Exmantaa, on 23 Jun 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

@Alex; ignition retard to avoid detonation...

  whatdoyoumean? That I'm retarded?

Maybe... How are your IAT's lately??

 

 

IAT's are great. Not using the car is a great way to cool the charge. 

 

OK, I'm a bit slow and some, less kind, people may call that retarded. So it's a ping thing. Somebody should have spelled that out. Slowly and in capitals. Now do something about it. And don't forget to write up a how-to. With pictures. So that I can copy it without having to go through the cumbersome process of thinking for myself.

[alexb]

Scuffers, on 23 Jun 2014 - 3:28 PM, said:

sorry, I just don't follow that logic, maybe because I come from a somewhat different perspective.

 

your suggesting that a 99% bodge solution is better than a 100% bodged solution?

 

Look, I am not trying to sell you a stand alone, what I am trying to get you to see is the limitations of it, and some of these can be somewhat disastrous.

 

I think it's great somebody is looking to develop something like this, what scares me is what I see so far is nothing like enough to use to map an engine safely/correctly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You do come from a different perspective. You will have the knowledge to take a stand alone ECU, understand all the parameters that are important, plug the thing in and start mapping. Most of us don't. Sure you're right that it would make sense for all of us to understand what's going on before we all start playing with maps and knock retard and what not. Taking myself as and example, I would be completely overwhelmed and probaby manage to blow my engine at the first go. Great learning exercise, but not very effective. The learning curve would be very steep and start from ground zero.

 

OBDTuner at least allows you some level of control. Sure you can blow your engine, but it's a pretty safe tool to use. That some people start to see the limitations is only to be expected. For normal road use there are very little issues. On the other hand, the M62 set up with manifold and the laminovas has got it's own, pure physical, limitations. It was designed for road use, so little wonder that you start feeling these limitations when using it on track.  

[Exmantaa]

This thread is siderailing massively, as no stand alone will solve the IAT issues we suffer with our SC's...

Back to solutions please.

 

(@ Scuffers; download the OBD software, load a calibration in and have a play with it to see it's functionality. It's great for what it is; a bespoke, free mappable solution for the quirky Z22SE engine, using all the OEM harware. And one that is continuously updated with new features.)

[Scuffers]

Exmantaa, on 23 Jun 2014 - 5:14 PM, said:

This thread is siderailing massively, as no stand alone will solve the IAT issues we suffer with our SC's...

Back to solutions please.

 

(@ Scuffers; download the OBD software, load a calibration in and have a play with it to see it's functionality. It's great for what it is; a bespoke, free mappable solution for the quirky Z22SE engine, using all the OEM harware. And one that is continuously updated with new features.)

I have, and in using it is where I have gained my views and insights.

 

Look, like I said, it has great potential, where it falls down is exactly how it should not.

 

as already posted, people think it's safe for them to play with, and to be blunt, nothing could be further from the truth! it may be very limited, but the scope to f**k it up is huge.

 

realistically, you're not going to learn engine mapping in an afternoon playing with a bit of SW.

 

even with stand-alones, the guys that write the software are not engine calibration engineers, so whilst they think that this and that are great features or strategies, they are often very wrong, conversely, a calibration engineer probably can't write SW for sh*t.

 

Now, the OEM ECU is actually pretty dam advanced, compared to typical aftermarket stuff, it's well ahead, having probably 100 times the money and time spent developing it, this then means that anybody wanting to re-programme it (or more specially, write SW to do the job) has a massive learning curve to overcome, way more than your typical stand-alone.

 

now, *IF* somebody can come up with SW that is 100% in tune with the OEM ECU's structure and strategies, then yes, we have the ultimate solution, however, I somehow doubt that is the case here?

 

Feel free to tell me I am wrong and that Peter has 100% cracked, understood and interfaced to the ECU?

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

@ scuffers I'm sure if you email peter he will give you the answers you need, He is very approachable guy, Also scuffers what kind of costs are involved in a full standalone ecu to work on our engines ?? Fully set up and ready to drive as we please, I was quite surprised when someone early in this thread said thee was only a few quid difference. Also I'm not against you, I just feel as if your righting of the software before you really no it, ( how long have you spent playing or using the software ? )

[ArticMonkey]

£650ish for the standalone itself and then what ever a days dyno time costs. So anywhere from £1000-1500 all in.

Edited by ArticMonkey, 23 June 2014 - 05:56 PM.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

ArticMonkey, on 23 Jun 2014 - 5:56 PM, said:

£650ish for the standalone itself and then what ever a days dyno time costs. So anywhere from £1000-1500 all in.

It's good value can't complain with that

[oakmere]

Scuffers is correct that the OBD tuner is to limited for an experienced mapper and version 3 will give quite a bit more functionality. But I can understand why Peter is reluctant in giving to much access to a first time user as this could put off future clients wanting a simple to use product.

[The Batman]

What stops obd tuner customers buying the rights then dropping it off at a reputable tuner for them to use the software to put a map on the car

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Nothing

[The Batman]

Then doesn't this stop the little " baby toy throwing " and handbag fight that's going on here then

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

If the reputable tuner is happy to do it

[Scuffers]

The Batman, on 23 Jun 2014 - 6:31 PM, said:

What stops obd tuner customers buying the rights then dropping it off at a reputable tuner for them to use the software to put a map on the car

Nothing except they will say the same as i have, its just not there yet.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

The Batman, on 23 Jun 2014 - 6:32 PM, said:

Then doesn't this stop the little " baby toy throwing " and handbag fight that's going on here then

Your becoming very wise

[fezzasus]

Scuffers, on 23 Jun 2014 - 6:38 PM, said:

 

The Batman, on 23 Jun 2014 - 6:31 PM, said:

What stops obd tuner customers buying the rights then dropping it off at a reputable tuner for them to use the software to put a map on the car

Nothing except they will say the same as i have, its just not there yet.

 

 

Given the alternative CS has to put up with, they'll be pretty happy with it.

[smiley]

The Batman, on 23 Jun 2014 - 6:31 PM, said:

What stops obd tuner customers buying the rights then dropping it off at a reputable tuner for them to use the software to put a map on the car

 

What do you mean with rights? Just buy the software and let the tuner do the learning session work?

[smiley]

smiley, on 23 Jun 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

 

fezzasus, on 23 Jun 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

No, you need to ask Peter

 

I emailed him, but no response yet.

 

 

[font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"]From Peter:[/font]

 

[font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"]Dial down when using a tmap is lineair with 0,086 degree of detonation for every degree of iat as from 57.[/font]

[font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"]So at 80 degrees of IAT, that is about 2 degrees of detonation.[/font]

 

[font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"] Without a tmap, the dialdown is just set "earlier" (no numbers mentioned) due to safety as the heat inside the manifold is unknown.[/font]