99 replies to this topic

[pete-r]

It's not about peak torque it's bout the torque spread.

SC torque is very flat because it's crank driven. Your car will produce huge torque at 3-6000 but under or over that the drop off will be much greater which is why turbos feel laggy.

Here's two examples. What helps the drivability is to have as few sharp sections as possible, but the turbo numbers are ultimately much higher. My golf gti is turbocharged and it's fine but the lag waiting for the turbo to spool is noticable, while the vx just feels to me like it has a bigger cc engine fitted and response feels sharper. It's a trade off.

Edited by pete-r, 01 January 2015 - 01:17 AM.

[siztenboots]

The sc graphs are a bit misleading about low rpm torque, due to crank losses adjustment

[pete-r]

True but you get the idea.

[Bumblebee]

Not getting in to s/c and turbo debate and don't want to hijack the thread but There's a lot of misunderstanding when it comes to turbo's and "lag" and the turbo vx220's hardly have any as the turbo kicks in low down unlike some big power jap cars. But yeah it's spread of power/torque that's important not peak figures

Edited by Bumblebee, 01 January 2015 - 11:44 AM.

[pete-r]

But yeah it's spread of power/torque that's important not peak figures

Agreed.

Edited by pete-r, 01 January 2015 - 01:41 PM.

[siztenboots]

tbh you might as well build the 2.3 as the block and head is the same , unless you must have a very high rpm

[Nev]

One of the key positives of the B204 engine (that nobody has mentioned) is that it has a bore of 90mm and a stroke of just 78mm - ie superb for very high revs. Even some of the super revvy Jap engines don't have as good a ratio as that. With just a mod of high lift cams you can cram tons of boost in to make 500 reliable BHP apparently.

 

Fundamentally (from a design point of view) it is an excellent engine for high power, regardless that it is old and a bit heavy. I used to be hyper weight sensitive too, but since upgrading to big power I have realised that a few dozen kilos here or there isn't significant.

Edited by Nev, 01 January 2015 - 05:54 PM.

[siztenboots]

the rod ratios are even better than most rice burners

 

http://www.vx220.org...-conrod-ratios/

[Graeme Lambert]

Some B204 reading for anyone interested. 666bhp. Love how the car it's in looks like a beater as well!

 

http://www.serioussa...2x4tribute.html

[AiM]

It seems that someone has same kind of plans that I have had years -VX220/Speedster with B204/B205/B234/B235 engine. 2,0 and 2,3 engine shares block and only crank, pistons and rods are chancing. Trionic T5 and T7 engine managements are easily mapped by user with free software.

 

I would go to Trionic T5 management which is MAP controlled and with mechanical throttle body. T7 is airmass meter controlled and with electrical throttle body. With T7 you can use BioPower software so you can mix petrol and E85. T5 and T7 has some limitations when using very high revs (over 7500rpm) or with T7 you are over 500bhp. Of course you can upgrade later to VEMS or something else.

 

About the gearbox, You can later upgrade your gearbox to F35 or even F40.

 

I have weighted some B204/B205/B234/B235 engines and have some numbers to share. I believe that B204/B205/B234/B235 engine is any heavier than Z22 except turbocharger.

 

I can later check height of the block and head -also with oilman and valve cover.

 

Blocks;

B206i 42,5kg  (no balance shafts and no piston oil squirters -can be machined)

B205/B235 42,8kg

B204/B234 49,1kg

Main bearing caps (5pcs) 3,3kg

 

Cranks;

B204/B205 15,9kg

B234/B235 16,3kg

 

Pistons 2kg

Rods+pins 3,3kg

Oilpan 2,9kg

Crank pulley 3,3kg

End plate plate 1,0kg

Timing cover+oilpump 2,4kg

Waterpump+hoses 2,7kg

Complete head 22,3kg

 

I can also later check weights for timing chain+sliders and balance shafts.

Edited by AiM, 03 January 2015 - 07:39 PM.

[Nev]

Some B204 reading for anyone interested. 666bhp. Love how the car it's in looks like a beater as well!

 

http://www.serioussa...2x4tribute.html

 

Look at the amount of metal between the cylinder walls - that's why it can take nigh on 700 BHP.  

[slindborg]

Some B204 reading for anyone interested. 666bhp. Love how the car it's in looks like a beater as well!   http://www.serioussa...2x4tribute.html

  Look at the amount of metal between the cylinder walls - that's why it can take nigh on 700 BHP.  

With losses the pistons are probably seeing in the order of 750... That is certainly a meaty block :

[Nev]

It seems that someone has same kind of plans that I have had years -VX220/Speedster with B204/B205/B234/B235 engine. 2,0 and 2,3 engine shares block and only crank, pistons and rods are chancing. Trionic T5 and T7 engine managements are easily mapped by user with free software.

 

I would go to Trionic T5 management which is MAP controlled and with mechanical throttle body. T7 is airmass meter controlled and with electrical throttle body. With T7 you can use BioPower software so you can mix petrol and E85. T5 and T7 has some limitations when using very high revs (over 7500rpm) or with T7 you are over 500bhp. Of course you can upgrade later to VEMS or something else.

 

About the gearbox, You can later upgrade your gearbox to F35 or even F40.

 

I have weighted some B204/B205/B234/B235 engines and have some numbers to share. I believe that B204/B205/B234/B235 engine is any heavier than Z22 except turbocharger.

 

I can later check height of the block and head -also with oilman and valve cover.

 

Blocks;

B206i 42,5kg  (no balance shafts and no piston oil squirters -can be machined)

B205/B235 42,8kg

B204/B234 49,1kg

Main bearing caps (5pcs) 3,3kg

 

Cranks;

B204/B205 15,9kg

B234/B235 16,3kg

 

Pistons 2kg

Rods+pins 3,3kg

Oilpan 2,9kg

Crank pulley 3,3kg

End plate plate 1,0kg

Timing cover+oilpump 2,4kg

Waterpump+hoses 2,7kg

Complete head 22,3kg

 

I can also later check weights for timing chain+sliders and balance shafts.

 

Useful, thanks

 

[mbes2]

Good read this thread If the vx conversion with 400bhp will only be used on the road... why don't you just buy a astra vxr, loads cheaper to go to 400+

[Nev]

Good read this thread If the vx conversion with 400bhp will only be used on the road... why don't you just buy a astra vxr, loads cheaper to go to 400+

 

Do you mean the new Astra GTC with direct injection?  

[siztenboots]

 

Good read this thread If the vx conversion with 400bhp will only be used on the road... why don't you just buy a astra vxr, loads cheaper to go to 400+

 

Do you mean the new Astra GTC with direct injection?  

 

 

its a Gen II replacement of the B207

 

http://en.wikipedia....otec_engine#LDK

[The Knobs]

Bit OT but can this engine be used in RWD? Looking at alternatives to the norm for my bathtub

[Winstar]

Bit OT but can this engine be used in RWD? Looking at alternatives to the norm for my bathtub

Iirc ppc mag stuck one in a mk2 escort a few years back

[The Knobs]

 

Bit OT but can this engine be used in RWD? Looking at alternatives to the norm for my bathtub

Iirc ppc mag stuck one in a mk2 escort a few years back

 

 

Looks like a couple of clitcars have been done and bellhousing for Ford t5 and t9 are available, may have to look into this further.  

[slindborg]

Lots of kits have the 204 from my hunt for info for this thread. The issue for kits is the height and slope of the nose needing to be right and/or dry dumped etc