55 replies to this topic

[techieboy]

Most of the M90's are even less efficient than the M62 as they're an older generation still. It won't work with the LSJ manifold with the integrated laminova charge coolers, so you'll need to come up with something entirely new on the inlet and cooling side of things. Probably less of an issue as your not going to use the LSJ inlet manifold but you'd also need to get the correct snout to position the pulley in line with the crank pulley. If you're doing all of that, you'd probably be better off with a clean sheet of paper and using a Rotrex supercharger.

[PaulCP]

How old are the tyres? Tread may be good, but if they are more than 2yrs old you might aswell spread them with butter.

Tyre manufacturer propaganda😛 I used 7 year old 888s on track last year, they'd been stored correctly and had no problems with them, still nice & sticky when hot👍

[Dollon]

Most of the M90's are even less efficient than the M62 as they're an older generation still. It won't work with the LSJ manifold with the integrated laminova charge coolers, so you'll need to come up with something entirely new on the inlet and cooling side of things. Probably less of an issue as your not going to use the LSJ inlet manifold but you'd also need to get the correct snout to position the pulley in line with the crank pulley. If you're doing all of that, you'd probably be better off with a clean sheet of paper and using a Rotrex supercharger.

 

I haven't looked too far ahead yet. Obviously the less fabrication then the better.

 

Using a rotrex I could, as you say, start with a clean sheet and just go wild. This will have to wait until the car can be taken off the road for a reasonable amount of time.

 

I had considered searching about Mini cooper S superchargers as I bet that question has been asked before but not got around to it yet. Granted it's forcing air into a smaller engine, but they are very readily available. 

 

Obviously a bolt on intake will be preferable. I hadn't intended to run a charge cooler given the low end of the supercharging power I was going for. But given what I now know, and how easy it would be to go from a stage 2 setup to a stage 4 once the internal work has been carried out, it's something I need to look further into now. 

 

Has anyone looked at Jackson superchargers in the past as they seem spot on for Honda's K20 engine. Which pulls in quite an airflow. Granted they have less torque. But I'm sure it would be easier to fabricate an intake from one.

[Dollon]

 

How old are the tyres? Tread may be good, but if they are more than 2yrs old you might aswell spread them with butter.

Tyre manufacturer propaganda😛 I used 7 year old 888s on track last year, they'd been stored correctly and had no problems with them, still nice & sticky when hot👍

 

 

Likely my suspension setup then. See above (page 1) will get alignment checked once suspension is changed and new bushes all done.

[JG]

I hope you didn't pay very much for it...

[Dollon]

I hope you didn't pay very much for it...

 

I was laughing at how much I paid for it. I made a small fortune in the deal and ended up with this standing me at about £5k

 

I'm happy to have a project, and not feel bad putting miles on it when it's already this high. Car will undergo a full nut and bolt rebuild by the time I'm done with it.

[Exmantaa]

 

Most of the M90's are even less efficient than the M62 as they're an older generation still. It won't work with the LSJ manifold with the integrated laminova charge coolers, so you'll need to come up with something entirely new on the inlet and cooling side of things. Probably less of an issue as your not going to use the LSJ inlet manifold but you'd also need to get the correct snout to position the pulley in line with the crank pulley. If you're doing all of that, you'd probably be better off with a clean sheet of paper and using a Rotrex supercharger.

 

I haven't looked too far ahead yet. Obviously the less fabrication then the better.

 

Using a rotrex I could, as you say, start with a clean sheet and just go wild. This will have to wait until the car can be taken off the road for a reasonable amount of time.

 

I had considered searching about Mini cooper S superchargers as I bet that question has been asked before but not got around to it yet. Granted it's forcing air into a smaller engine, but they are very readily available. 

 

Obviously a bolt on intake will be preferable. I hadn't intended to run a charge cooler given the low end of the supercharging power I was going for. But given what I now know, and how easy it would be to go from a stage 2 setup to a stage 4 once the internal work has been carried out, it's something I need to look further into now. 

 

Has anyone looked at Jackson superchargers in the past as they seem spot on for Honda's K20 engine. Which pulls in quite an airflow. Granted they have less torque. But I'm sure it would be easier to fabricate an intake from one.

 

 

The tried and proven M62 set-up is capable to overpower your Z22SE engine. Off course you can try to be different, but you will probably spend more $$ and time in custom manifold, brackets and chargecooling and still end up with something less than the standard GM route. (If you want it cheap => PM for some tips)  

[techieboy]

You'll run into exactly the same installation problems with the Mini's M45 except you'll need to spin it even more outside it's efficiency zone to get the necessary flow for the 50% bigger engine in the VX. You might be able to make an adapter plate to mate it to the LSJ inlet manifold but not sure what you'll do for a bypass on it. Likewise, it will need a solution for the throttle body (remember it will also have to be a GM throttle body compatible with our ECU) as I don't think that's mounted to the M45 and is further back up the inlet tract. Even using the Mini's inlet manifold won't work as there isn't the space between the engine and bulkhead. For Stage 2 (upto 260bhp) power, it's a no-brainer to follow the well trodden path of importing an M62, 68mm LSJ throttle body and the LSJ inlet manifold from the States for anything from $500-$900 via US eBay. It's all OEM quality straight from GM and a direct fit to the Z22SE. No need to twat about fitting smaller pulleys and screwing the efficiency, unless you want to. You can fit an oversize pulley and step the power down for better efficiency, if you want. You can even theoretically remove the Laminova coolers if you do underdrive it. Stage 4 needs a Harrop TVS1320 supercharger and that's been designed to fit directly to the LSJ manifold and use the LSJ 68mm throttle body, so you'll really want the proper inlet if you go that route, especially given the lack of space and the weight of it. Aren't Jackson superchargers just Eaton Mxx chargers anyway?

[smiley]

I had considered searching about Mini cooper S superchargers as I bet that question has been asked before but not got around to it yet. Granted it's forcing air into a smaller engine, but they are very readily available. 

 

Mini (and Mercedes) use the eatom M45 which is an 0.75 liter SC.

Uncooled they do about 30 bhp (a few have this running on their Z22SE)

Waste of money in my book.

 

Take the proven route with used parts and the M62 setup.

Use a cheap oil cooler in the crashbox, or even a setup in the right air intake of the rear clam instead of the expensive Pro Alloy charge cooler, and you should be happy to squeeze out 240 isch.

When finding the right (used) parts, and using a CS basemap, you can do this well under 1500. (assuming you can diy it, like many have done before you)

 

A rough indication:

 

M62 plus maninfold - 700 Oil cooler - 50 lsj header tank - 30 turbo injectors - 50 waterpump - 50 2 bar map sensor - 20 SC gasket (new) - 36 CS S hose (new) - 16 CS pully bracket (new) - 78 CS remap - 200 Bits and bobs - 200

Edited by smiley, 18 January 2015 - 11:00 PM.

[Dollon]

You'll run into exactly the same installation problems with the Mini's M45 except you'll need to spin it even more outside it's efficiency zone to get the necessary flow for the 50% bigger engine in the VX. You might be able to make an adapter plate to mate it to the LSJ inlet manifold but not sure what you'll do for a bypass on it. Likewise, it will need a solution for the throttle body (remember it will also have to be a GM throttle body compatible with our ECU) as I don't think that's mounted to the M45 and is further back up the inlet tract. Even using the Mini's inlet manifold won't work as there isn't the space between the engine and bulkhead. For Stage 2 (upto 260bhp) power, it's a no-brainer to follow the well trodden path of importing an M62, 68mm LSJ throttle body and the LSJ inlet manifold from the States for anything from $500-$900 via US eBay. It's all OEM quality straight from GM and a direct fit to the Z22SE. No need to twat about fitting smaller pulleys and screwing the efficiency, unless you want to. You can fit an oversize pulley and step the power down for better efficiency if you want. You can even theoretically remove the Laminova coolers if you do underdrive it. Stage 4 needs a Harrop TVS1320 supercharger and that's been designed to fit directly to the LSJ manifold and use the LSJ 68mm throttle body, so you'll really want the proper inlet if you go that route, especially given the lack of space and the weight of it. Aren't Jackson superchargers just Eaton Mxx chargers anyway?

 

I wasn't sure on the size of the Mini's Supercharger having not looked into it yet. Now I know it's smaller I can give that thought train a miss.

 

Following the Trodden path is a good idea, I agree, However I am looking at other options as a project, or as a way of doing things better than they have been done before. OR to work out a cheaper and more efficient or more powerful way of doing it without spending as much money. Granted this will be difficult as I'm not the first, by a long way, and won't be the last, to apply forced induction to the Z22SE. 

 

Using GM parts sounds like a no brainier to most people, as it's bolt on equipment. Availability seems to be the issue as most parts need sourced from abroad. 

 

As you can see I'm throwing ideas around, many of which will have been shot down by other people before me, hence using this thread as a way of having people who have more knowledge in this area to help me. 

 

Jackson, again, not looked deeply into them yet

[Dollon]

 

I had considered searching about Mini cooper S superchargers as I bet that question has been asked before but not got around to it yet. Granted it's forcing air into a smaller engine, but they are very readily available. 

 

Mini (and Mercedes) use the eatom M45 which is an 0.75 liter SC.

Uncooled they do about 30 bhp (a few have this running on their Z22SE)

Waste of money in my book.

 

Take the proven route with used parts and the M62 setup.

Use a cheap oil cooler in the crashbox, or even a setup in the right air intake of the rear clam instead of the expensive Pro Alloy charge cooler, and you should be happy to squeeze out 240 isch.

When finding the right (used) parts, and using a CS basemap, you can do this well under 1500. (assuming you can diy it, like many have done before you)

 

 

I don't like the sound of SQUEEZING power out of a set-up. 

 

However sticking with the tested route of the M62 seems more appealing now I know more about it than before. And doing it properly, seems to yield reasonable results around the 240-260 mark based on the supercharger thread.

 

The other options of Turbocharging using Z20LEH components is still in my mind, as that should be able to produce a reliable 300 Horses for a similar cost of the Supercharging option. With the option to then Upgrade the internals and supporting mods to go for more.

 

The thing I don't like about supercharging is that it isn't able to go as high as turbocharging without a percentage more money spent. 

 

The other idea would be to run ITB's and keep the thing NA and responsive

[smiley]

 

The thing I don't like about supercharging is that it isn't able to go as high as turbocharging without a percentage more money spent. 

 

 

The basics restrictions of rods and pistons needing swap at 275isch, will be at either technology used. M62 stops around 318bhp max. harrop at 400 max.

 

Biggest challenge on turbo is custom design, as there is no kit in the UK, and the only german Z22SE turbo tuner will not sell parts.

Though 2 dutch guys currently undertaking that challenge by giving it a go (2 different projects).

Edited by smiley, 18 January 2015 - 11:20 PM.

[techieboy]

Yep, alternative is a turdo. Plenty of turdo sh!t knocking around out there from a Z20NET or Saab B207. I've even got the whole Saab high pressure turbo crap sat in a box in the garage that came attached to a B207R donor engine I bought. Good for 280-290bhp on a Saab and a direct fit (with the exception of the exhaust). Though you might as well have bought a VXT in the first place if you want to handicap yourself.

[fezzasus]

bla bla bla. You'll go in a full circle discussing all the supercharging options and end up with the LSJ M62 option because it's just the quickest and cheapest option.

[Bumblebee]

Turbo and throttle bodies �

[Dollon]

[quote name="smiley" post="1759900" timestamp="1421622395"]


There is a uk based turbo set up for the z22se. I was quoted £5800 all in for a complete ready to go kit for an estimated 300bhp
 

[The Batman]

What you want is a stage 3/4 sc engine, with either a 300bhp sc setup or a 380bhp harrop sc setup But then as I can supply both I am slightly biased

[2-20]

Are these options still valid ?

 

http://www.hotrod.co...cotec-bolt-ons/

[Exmantaa]

Blower & cams on a B207 engine; yes...

(But note that that 372HP was measured without alternator etc., so skewing the readings a bit.)

[smiley]

[quote name="smiley" post="1759900" timestamp="1421622395"]
There is a uk based turbo set up for the z22se. I was quoted £5800 all in for a complete ready to go kit for an estimated 300bhp
 

 

I think that is the maxi turbo kit for the speedster from dbilas.

They have a few resellers who do the work

http://www.dbilas-sh...08_307_318.html

 

Just the kit is not for sale.