2139 replies to this topic

[The Batman]

£1,000,000.00

[Exmantaa]

Slightly cheaper: http://www.elise-sho...s-p-502288.html

 

 

[Tony H]

Slightly...

[The Batman]

Stop trying to help the flip flop man out!

[The Batman]

So can't stay too quiet for long but have decided to plan for the winter and start part hoarding again! So the current plan is to build another engine that will have a Ported and polished k20 head with a k24 block Current spec will be unless I find better parts for not much more money: Arp bolts 208-4701 Skunk2: Rods - 306-05-1150 Intake manifold - 307-05-0315 Chain cover - 681-05-4211 Springs and retainers344-05-1410 Tuner cams stage2 DC5 74mm tb black Black Fuel rail 550cc injectors SuperTech Intake Valves +1mm SuperTech Exhaust Valves +1mm CP pistons 87.5mm 12.5:1 Cr As some will notice.... There is no charger on the list! I almost bought one the other week but couldn't come to an agreement with a dodgy italian guy selling it! so back onto project NA!

[techieboy]

So the current plan is to build another engine that will have a Ported and polished k20 head with a k24 block

 

How very Scuffers of you.

[The Batman]

Please don't speak about my new best friend like that.

[rob999]

Like this spec dude. K24 should give you a bit more torque all been well.

[oakmere]

I notice no ITB's. What sort of power with the Skunk inlet manifold and Frankenstein engine? I thought the RRC inlet produced better results than the Scunk but may be not at this spec level. Worth a read: http://www.superstre.../#__federated=1

[fezzasus]

Is a long stroke engine really the way to go for an NA Honda?

 

My view (and i'm happy to accept there are others here), is that an NA Honda should rev to stupid levels and have power at high RPM. This seems to sit well with the nature of the lightweight Elise. Moving to a longer stroke will take away those high revs, and make the engine generally lazier. It might be viewed as 'filling in the gaps' by adding much needed low end torque, however I suspect it might also ruin the characteristics of the K20.

 

Personally, if you're chasing low end torque and willing to sacrifice some top end, charging still makes more sense. Or even an Audi engine.

[Nev]

Wowzers, 550cc injectors, will you really need those on an NA, surely they'd be good for circa 450 BHP ?

[The Batman]

I thought I would need 440cc but have been suggested to use 550cc

[The Batman]

Some people run 650cc on cars running 260+whp

Anyways... Took the car out today and felt like a 2 year old again

[Nev]

I really like the idea of those Honda engines, would really suit a lightweight Lotus chassisied car I think.

 

What's the most NA power anyone you can realistically get out of one (that costs £5,000 or less)?

[The Batman]

Not sure for that bud My build is gonna be around 3k

[Arno]

Is a long stroke engine really the way to go for an NA Honda?

 

This.. I don't really 'get' the use of K24's in Elises unless boosted to hell with turbo's or SC's.. In stock N/A form they become pretty 'boggo' engines that don't like to go >7200 much because of the very long stroke and then there are probably others out there that may even give better results.

 

The Honda engines, going back to the B16 and similar, always had the 'party trick' of going well north of 8000 rpm without any issues and the VTEC setup means it remains docile and rivable at low rpm's but can use wild and lairy cams with 300+ degree durations at high rpm's.

 

This does allow you to play with then in N/A form and do an OEM-style mix-and-match game. A k24 block can still be used but for instance bored and de-stroked to a 2.1 to 2.2L that should be able to do 10k rpm with piston speeds that remain in the 'sane' levels. Or a  re-sleeved and bored K20 with a shorter stroke F20C crank to keep the 2.0L but push the rpm limits.. (remember the stock F20C does 9000rpm and pre-dates the K20...). Of course some custom parts are often still required like rods but there is a huge amount of tuning and aftermarket bits out there.

 

If components are not stressed too crazily then it should be able to sustain revs much longer and especially loads on pistons and rods and cranks go up at a much more than linear rate when strokes are long and revs are insreased.

 

Don't get me wrong.. Plenty of N/A K24's (or usually 'frankenstein' K20 head + K24 bottom)  that rev to 8 - 9000rpm have been built (albeit often with NOS), but these do start to go into the 'expensive handgrenade' category rapidly where the speeds and loads imposed on the engine simply take their toll on wear and tear an require frequent rebuilds or simply they are limited use.

 

Still.. Not my car, so whatever you want, go for it!

 

Just remember that with the K24 several 'known' K20 performance bits won't work as well or differently as the added displacement changes the intake and exhaust characteristics of the engine. So intakes, cams, etc. tend to need some research as to what 'works' on a K24. Eg. some of the 'milder' cams on a K20 produce much better results on a K24 than the 'wild' ones.

 

Bye, Arno.

[The Batman]

I'm always happy to have more info and advice What cr do you both recommend? The same but in k20 form? Standard size or overbore? Least it will save me buying a k24 just for the bottom end

Edited by The Batman, 21 March 2015 - 05:06 PM.

[Nev]

A longer throw will mean more torque lower down, which does have benefits (at the penalty of top end power). It's all very well aiming for huge RPM limits with little mid range torque for a race car, but I think Joe will be using this on the road too, so maybe he will want it "streetable", so he doesn't have to rev it to 5000 RPM just to pull away from the lights.

 

Edited by Nev, 22 March 2015 - 07:45 PM.

[fezzasus]

No one has ever said 'i know what this sports car needs, a slow revving four pot'. If you're chasing big power, go to forced induction. If not, play to the strengths of the engine, which isn't making it a longer stroke.

[The Batman]

Now now play nice all!! I love the characteristics of the engine but it is a bit gutless! I think I'm going to change the intake, port the tb and fit jdm cams and get it mapped. This will see me through the summer rwady for hopefully the new engine to be dropped in. I love the reviness of it so now I think about it I think I will keep it 2.0! Sorry scuffers! Just need to get the dremel out to do s bit of porting on the manifold and on the throttle body, fit the thermal gaskets I have and then cut the bulkhead if need be to make the intake fit! Oh and persuade Vocky to fit some cams for me