2139 replies to this topic

[Zoobeef]

I know someone selling a Noble engine for about £1.5k. 700 bhp is becoming common now too.

[Scuffers]

NA power from 4 pots is hard to win. I wonder if anyone will have the balls to try and fit a V6 transversely into a VX one day...

its not the 4 pot bit that's the limit, it's simply that we are dealing with production based engines, and their design is not aimed at very high HP/RPM outputs.

 

it's easy enough to get a V6 engine in the VX, plenty have already been done into Toyota based S2 Chassis, including the Evora's V6, problem is they are even more power challenged (as NA engines).

 

end of the day, if you're chasing HP, forced induction wins hands down.

[The Batman]

 

Thanks for the info dude

Tb and rrc adaptor plate turnt up today

TB seems a little incomplete? Missing the TPS at the side and idle control valve at the bottom. Also still seems to have the second cable wheel for cruise-control on it. (probably not from an EP3 typeR?)
 

I want to get the inlet and outlet bored out. Will any machine shop so this for me?

Decent machine-shop should be able to help you.

OEM TB's can't be bored out too much as there isn't very much 'meat' in some parts.Usually the butterfly can be brought to 64mm and the housing tapered from the ends starting at 70mm.

RRC manifold should be no problem to bore the intake connection to 70mm. Little or no channels in it.

I see your RRC is not modified for the older engine style yet (K20A). Usually the water outlet connection that's integrated in the flange on these (for the later K20Z engines) needs to be cut off for the older engines as they have a separate outlet spout attachment and not integrated in the manifold.

Bye, Arno.

 

 

 

it did come with an extra sensor etc, it was meant to be ep3 type r... but to be honest i only paid £40 for that and the adaptor plate so it was free!

 

i was reading that people bore the standard to 70mm and there is a  place in america that do a tb swap.

 

again the rrc was sold to me on ebay meant for the ep3 type r so i am currently in contact with them, will much work need to be done to it? what exactly is involved?

 

thanks!

 

Don't forget to drive it Joe! How many miles have you done so far?

If ever come near Bristol give me a PM/ring and I'll show you what Vauxhall turbo power can do these days, you may sell your "imposter" and swap back to a VXT

 

done a couple hundred miles in it! will let you know if im near and want to be scared by all that torque! but i cant see myself buying a vxt.... unless its a mint vxr that i can cut up

 

 

 

Well a friend of mine in the Swedish Hondaclub is not havig 357 bhp but a respectible 331 bhp NA and this with std port size and OEM RRC manifold. A  full CNC head bigger valves and a Skunk 2 Ultra manifold with spacer or any other good  manifold. And those numbers shouldn´t be too far away. This is on E85.  + There are more candy you could bring on.

 

http://rejsa.nu/foru...r=asc&start=294

 

BR, Per

 

Also not very credible, although he is running E85 not petrol.

 

8,000+ Rpm on a 99mm stroke is also pretty risky, (piston speeds exceeding that of the old V8's in F1 doing 20K+ Rpm)

 

I can believe he's at ~300hp levels, maybe a tad more, and to be fair, his torque figures look reasonable realistic, my guess is the dyno's being unrealistic higher up the rev range.

 

 

 

 

 

 

mr scuffers, what mods do you suggest to do to the k20a engine, i want a high reving high powered NA engine, which cams do you suggest? i was thinking 12.5cr standard bore, as i want to run premium fuel only

 

thanks!

[Scuffers]

it did come with an extra sensor etc, it was meant to be ep3 type r... but to be honest i only paid £40 for that and the adaptor plate so it was free!   i was reading that people bore the standard to 70mm and there is a  place in america that do a tb swap.

  you can't bore the std one to anything like 70mm, ~65 is the absolute limit problem is all the aftermarket ones have issues (as in all the ones I have played with have the build quality that make 70's Skoda look good)  

mr scuffers, what mods do you suggest to do to the k20a engine, i want a high reving high powered NA engine, which cams do you suggest? i was thinking 12.5cr standard bore, as i want to run premium fuel only   thanks!

do you mean K20A or K20A2 (A is JDM, A2 is rest of the world spec)? std K20A with the right bolt-ons can make ~235+bhp at the hubs (in an Elise) the real limits are: 1) exhaust system 2) inlet manifold (your new one is much better) 3) cam-train - std cam train is limited to ~8,800 Rpm 4) oil pump - Std oil pump is limited to ~8,800 Rpm 5) rod bolts - std ones are OK to ~9,000 Rpm 6) pistons/rods - std ones OK to ~9,000 Rpm after that is guesswork. kind of depends how much money you want to spend, what you need to remember is even modest gains are going to cost £££ if money no object, I would: Darton liner the block, then bore out to 89mm new pistons to match, aim for ~12.7:1 (if your sticking to petrol) new rods (not cheap american sh*t) New valve springs (eibach or Toda) New cam chain & Tensioner Cams - big can of worms, Toda are safe, after that welcome to the world of guinea-pigging. Exhaust system - once you have picked your cams, then get this designed to match (ie, nothing off the shelf) 70mm throttle inlet to the throttle - needs to be carefully designed (ie, not just some silicon pipe! Oil pump - if you plan on 9,000+ then dry sump time with all the right bits and work, this will get you ~300 and maybe a little more the bore increase is the biggest factor in these gains, not because of the CC increase, but the increase in breathing this allows. remind me how much cash you have for this?

[The Batman]

i was reading somewhere that they could, so i guess i was reading either incorrect information or maybe they where talking about a different throttle body   i currently have a 2bular 4-2-1 exhaust system and to be honest i didnt want to replace it unless it really does become restrictive   so for roughly 300bhp at the hubs the spec below needs doing and next to them was what i was thinking, im sure they is better and worse parts out there so your point of view would be appreciated   Darton liner the block, then bore out to 89mm new pistons to match, aim for ~12.7:1 (if your sticking to petrol) - CP pistons good? new rods (not cheap american sh*t) - skunk2? New valve springs (eibach or Toda) - skunk2 springs and titanium retainers? New cam chain & Tensioner - cant remember where but i saw some company selling heavy duty chains Cams - big can of worms, Toda are safe, after that welcome to the world of guinea-pigging. - toda cams which ones would you suggest? Exhaust system - once you have picked your cams, then get this designed to match (ie, nothing off the shelf) 70mm throttle - skunk2 inlet to the throttle - needs to be carefully designed (ie, not just some silicon pipe!) - what do you suggest with this> Oil pump - if you plan on 9,000+ then dry sump time   what about +1mm valves? I currently have a head that is getting ported and polished   to make the above bhp what would you have to rev to? as you can see i have spoken to a skunk2 dealer and can get good discount... but happy to spend more if the parts are considerably better.   as for cash flow on this build i guess i dont really have a figure in mind that i want to spend... but i dont want to fall into the category of spending ££££s chasing 1 or 2hp  

Edited by The Batman, 31 March 2015 - 06:49 PM.

[Scuffers]

i was reading somewhere that they could, so i guess i was reading either incorrect information or maybe they where talking about a different throttle body

that's not from a K20A, that's a later DBW one (not sure which one, looks K24 to me?) - would be a good choice.  

i currently have a 2bular 4-2-1 exhaust system and to be honest i didnt want to replace it unless it really does become restrictive

 

re-think that, can almost guarantee it won't be right and as I said before, it's the single most important bit to get right.

 

if you're already baulking at the cost of this, then you need to review your goals, My guess is that to make a genuine 300Hp engine, you're looking at 6-7K min spend.  

what about +1mm valves? I currently have a head that is getting ported and polished   to make the above bhp what would you have to rev to? as you can see i have spoken to a skunk2 dealer and can get good discount... but happy to spend more if the parts are considerably better.   as for cash flow on this build i guess i dont really have a figure in mind that i want to spend... but i dont want to fall into the category of spending ££££s chasing 1 or 2hp

DO NOT PORT THE HEAD! - they are damn near perfect for NA use

 

same with the valves, std ones (and sizes are fine, by all means get the seats tidied up, and you can open the seats up a bit, but do not go hogging out the ports. (this is only worth doing for supercharged application).

 

Parts wise, I have no personal experience of Skunk2 stuff, it might be OK, but if it is it's going against the majority of K20 aftermarket stuff.

 

Cams are a bit subject, easy to grind wild cams that make power, the problem is that they also massacre the valvetrain, and yes, you can by stuffer springs, so called stronger chains and tensioners, but that's like a sticking plaster, the problems are still there, and they will come and bite you expensively.

 

Way I look at it is this, I will always use the Honda OEM part unless it's proven to be weak, most aftermarket stuff is nothing like the same quality.

 

Toda stuff is safe, as is most Mugan stuff, the real problems are with US sourced stuff that's predominantly made in china from who knows what?

 

Some is good, (for example, EP use Wavetrac diffs in their sequential, brought from them in the US and to be honest, I am amazed at the quality to the point I have question if they are actually made in the US), but a lot is sheer rubbish, eagle rods made from who knows what steel? etc etc.

 

Jamies Turbo engine used Darton/CP/Manley/ACL/Eibach, everything else was OEM Honda.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Batman]

6-7k isnt too bad to be honest, its alot cheaper than the vx engine and box i did.

 

would you not even gasket match the inlet / outlet?

 

so to sum things up (i love a list!!)

 

head:

rrc manifold

70mm tb

standard valves

tidy the valve seats up

toda cams

toda/eiback valve springs

cam chain and tensioner - honda standard?

custom intake pipe - enclosed air filter straight from side or roof scoop?

 

block:

Darton liner the block, then bore out to 89mm CP PISTONS ~12.7:1 89mm  skunk2 rods Exhaust system - once you have picked your cams, then get this designed to match (ie, nothing off the shelf)

baffled sump  

that with a 9k rev limit around 300bhp? (is that fly or at the hubs?) that sound about right?anything else you would add to the list?

 

[Arno]

I'd recommend you talk to Ian at clockwisemotion (info@clockwisemotion.co.uk, 07792 179485) with a list of what you're starting with and what you want to do and how you intend to use the engine.

 

He knows a huge amount on these engines and can probably advise,and recommend some parts or things to do or perhaps do some of the work like the liner action.

 

Oh.. And also get one of his baffled sumps on the engine! Good stuff

 

Bye, Arno.

[Aerodynamic]

6-7k isnt too bad to be honest, its alot cheaper than the vx engine and box i did.

 

would you not even gasket match the inlet / outlet?

 

so to sum things up (i love a list!!)

 

head:

rrc manifold

70mm tb

standard valves

tidy the valve seats up

toda cams

toda/eiback valve springs

cam chain and tensioner - honda standard?

custom intake pipe - enclosed air filter straight from side or roof scoop?

 

block:

Darton liner the block, then bore out to 89mm CP PISTONS ~12.7:1 89mm  skunk2 rods Exhaust system - once you have picked your cams, then get this designed to match (ie, nothing off the shelf)

baffled sump  

that with a 9k rev limit around 300bhp? (is that fly or at the hubs?) that sound about right?anything else you would add to the list?

 

 

Have you looked a the price f Cunningham rods, hear they shoud be the very best. But then I guess he cost Cold be Another issue.

 

What volume wil the Engine be with 89mm bore?

If yuo are going to buy a new sleeved block ERL should be the best.

 

Br, Per

 

[The Batman]

well had a productive last few days

 

started off by giving the car a bit of a shake down by going to north weald, and as some of you have seen on facebook ella got to drive the car in anger and did pretty well (obviously had a good teacher )

 

had a slight steering issue though, that was quite crashy and wobbly (technical terms!) found out to be the bottom steering uj and then found that one of the steering rack track rod end has seized and the other one was the opposite! so changed all of these and the steering is back up to spec!

 

so was all set for bedford gt and had a really good day, had an epic play with an exige s3 but didnt have the grunt to overtake only to keep up with it!

 

here are some pictures:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

so then it was time for wheels off and wash as the performance friction pads are a nightmare for wheels i hear and can already see the signs of them ruining the wheels but they do work well on track!

 

also cracked on with wash, paint cleaner, polish and wax and washed all the arch liners etc.

 

the thin paint job on the car has taken a beating from being on track, but it better get used to it

 

[JG]

thats how i clean mine

 

[Kieran McC]

When you get it resprayed invest in a covering of armour fend .Well worth in the long term

[PaulCP]

Love the yellow aerodynamic aid on the roof of the car in pic 3 😄😄 Are you making them generally available on Seloc?

Edited by PaulCP, 14 April 2015 - 05:36 PM.

[The Batman]

It's the new rule, if you are a novice you have to wear a silly hat on your car

[Zoobeef]

Did she stay as a passenger for the whole day then?

[The Batman]

Yup another airfield day and we will see. Might do Abingdon probably in June though very busy in may

[FLD]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's a cone on your roof!

[The Batman]

Stop picking on me must be blind though as I didn't even notice it ha

Anyways... Bought some goodies



Harness bar
New drop links as the old ones are nackered
Anti squeel pads as after Bedford they sound like a trains brakes

[Kieran McC]

My PF pads squeel like mad ,I have the grease and the anti squeel backing rubbers are fitted on mine still not worked,Even sabded the leading edge off the pads. What size discs are you using ? They seemed worse with the larger 308mm discs

[The Batman]

They where fine at North weald and generally driving around, where fine at Bedford aswell but then just started to squeel on the way home I blame that s3 exige as I was being very hard on the brakes chasing that. I was gonna lightly sand the surface of the brake pads and put that stuff on the back and give em a whirl!