706 replies to this topic

[Exmantaa]

To the pedal problem; here some details of Martin's last log for the org collective to sort out:

 

1; Martin's log where he tried to increment the pedal in certain steady steps. (0.25---, 0,5----, 0.75--- and 100%--- throttle input)
The pedal voltages spike and then fall back. Also his 100% signal is very weak, as that should be closer to 4.0v.

You also see the MAP pressure readings; much too high for his M62-3.0 pulley and it gets even higher when he does a long 100% pull.

 

 

2; A comparison between Chill and Martin's pedal voltages.
The throttle pedal has 2 potmeters that should give exact mirrored voltages to detect any wiring fault. (That's also what triggers the LoD throttle error.)  Both extremes (0% and 100% throttle) are the same, but his 100% signal is a bit weaker at 3.7v. The crossover points for the 2 potmeters are identical around 3.4v.

It really looks like something is mechanically loose/wrong with the pedal actuation...

[fezzasus]

Throttle pedal issue sounds like corroded connectors.

[Exmantaa]

Throttle pedal issue sounds like corroded connectors.

 

Can you then please explain me how you get 2 exact mirrored voltage signals with corroded connectors? When 1 spikes down and the other voltage spikes up...

 

(I won't rule it out completely, but it just does not look like a simple wiring glitch as the pedal has 2 independent signal paths that alway correspond exactly...)

Edited by Exmantaa, 24 November 2015 - 01:00 PM.

[fezzasus]

 

Throttle pedal issue sounds like corroded connectors.

 

Can you then please explain me how you get 2 exact mirrored voltage signals with corroded connectors or any other wiring glitch? When 1 spikes down and the other voltage spikes up...

 

 

Simple.

 

A potentiometer acts as a variable potential divider, where the resistance of one side increases and the resistance of the other side decreases. If the resistance is equal, you get equal split of voltage, if the resistance is biased in one direction, the voltage split will be biased too.

 

now, if you add a additional resistance to this circuit, the differences in resistance will be less with a certain bias, leading to it insufficiently decreasing as well as insufficiently increasing at the same time. Exactly what you're seeing with Martin's car

[Exmantaa]

http://www.speedster...e Z22SE - 1.pdf

 

B19; 2 independent potmeters; 5.0v, ground and signal paths... (The logged input signals from pin 3 & 6)

[fezzasus]

Independent until the X3 and X21 connectors, where any corrosion could increase resistance and prevent the full range of throttle pedal positions from being measured.

 

Or, considering this more broadly, is a fundamental issue with the map, including throttle positioning, be causing this?

[smiley]

At some point i asume Martin got a basemap from Peter. (as B207 conversions are not that common yet)

Was that tried to be restored?

 

Edited by smiley, 24 November 2015 - 01:41 PM.

[Exmantaa]

Not trying to discard a wiring/connection issue, as that could be a simple fix with some contact cleaner, but just not seeing it happen with the 2 individual signal paths. (also through  X3 and X21. You would get the TB-pedal error immediately if the voltages don't match.)

But a good inspection and a squirt of contact cleaner through the pedal connector, the LoD connectors and the ecu connector will never hurt...

 

Also has nothing to do with his mapping; you see the throttlebody following the pedal-input exactly. And then the MAP pressure again follows the TB-flap opening. Nothing wrong there, just the pedal input signal going into the ecu is not steady. (strange thing is that it was much more steady logged with ignition-only...)

[MartinS]

July base map from peter was re installed Sunday, a fuelling learning run done (around the 25th so far I believe!)  then a power run and two log files.

Car had an erratic throttle before so had another fitted a week ago, and it was even worse after that. The power of the car seems to be decreasing each week.

 

Car is going away now from me now, as have been going round and round since it came back with the new engine in July Even its journey home involved oil everywhere and a broken manifold bolt and its just got worse since.

To say I have not enjoyed this process would be an understatement and with my ecotec, it just took everything you threw at it and worked.  I never missed a track day booked. Missing them now has become the norm.

 

Anyone who has a Saab engine, do the decent thing and sell it to a Saab owner.

 

 

Martin S

 

[fezzasus]

Is there any reason to think this is related to the other issues?

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

At one point I did wondering the back pressure was working its way back past the charger and effecting the throttle body position But I quickly discarded the idea as I didn't think and pressure would be able to push past the SC unless the dump valve get bypassed somehow ? This way it would relate to the pressure build up Martin is seeing but it's very unlikely to be happening I now actually think there is two possibly three separate issues 1. Throttle pedal - throttle valve issue 2. Back pressure blockage valve timing 3 oil consumption 2 and 3 could be linked

[smiley]

Car is going away now from me now

 

 

As in the schredder, or to a specialist?

 

[MartinS]

The fuel consumption also hints at a cat failure.

 

The car is now going to Lee and Matt now for some proper hands on mechanical expertise.

 

Martin S

 

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

3" exhaust Martin

[MartinS]

Before a new exhaust I will de cat the new one first as that would already be way better than the system that happily ran 255 bhp for many years.

I have spent so much on this stupid conversion, that the thought of buying a new 3 inch exhaust system would be the final pisser, especially as its already had special cams, bigger injectors, lighter flywheels, bigger fuel pump, uprated clutch etc etc , and all to just to try and make it achieve a bit more than a bog standard ecotec can manage out of the crate. Something its failed to do consistently.

I remember it being posted that  'buy these cheap engines' they just bolt in and are better than the ecotec!    What a total load of %$%^&*&*?:~#@#!!!!! ollocks

Edited by MartinS, 25 November 2015 - 07:31 AM.

[smiley]

Stage 3 and higher brings challengers, regardless of ecotec or B207.

Stage 2 is called the sweet spot for a good reason.

 

Hopefully better times ahead with Lee and Matt in charge.

 

 

Fingers crossed.

Edited by smiley, 25 November 2015 - 09:20 AM.

[Sutol]

Where were these SAAB engines built?

[fezzasus]

[font="arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"]Kaiserslautern, Germany, unless Saab had another manufacturing site (unlikely given they use a shared block)[/font]

[Sutol]

[font="arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"]Kaiserslautern, Germany, unless Saab had another manufacturing site (unlikely given they use a shared block)[/font]

OK there wouldn't be a British Leyland scenario when they were going down the pan ie quality control went out of the window??

[fezzasus]

Unlikely, modern manufacture has also made it much less people dependent. They are there to make sure the machines are putting the cars together properly. Take the people away and stoppages due to machines going wrong will increase, but the quality of the cars will probably stay comparable.

 

Same goes for engines, the components are outsourced to the point that all you can really get wrong is tightening up the parts incorrectly, if that were the case the engine wouldn't have lasted more than a few minutes.