706 replies to this topic

[Kieran McC]

One other thought..... Is there a difference in the comb separators in the rocker covers for z22 and Saab?

There is a difference that's why CS used the z22 on my build . I belive it was mainly for the coil pack as there was no need to shorten the coil pack. The z22 cam cover did need some internal machining at one end for clearance.

[Sutol]

 

Martin was very careful with running in

What does that mean exactly please? I found running in to take around 2000 miles and needed as much revs and power that I could drive with.

 

He told me he had. Limited revs, increasing after oil changes as advised by Vocky. Recently I know he's been doing mapping of the dutch s/w which involves revving to the limit as you know. He also did the National where I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have held back.

Edited by Sutol, 30 September 2015 - 08:30 PM.

[MartinS]

I did 500 miles staying below 3500 revs on oil put in by Vocky (think was mineral) then the oil was changed by back on track (again not fully synthetic) think semi. Raised revs then to 5000 until 1000 miles when oil was changed again to fully synthetic. Then started using it to 7000 but really only when doing fueling runs. Went to Zandvort and used it fully (upto 7000 still as it wont rev to 7500).

Martin S

 

 

 

 

[Nev]

I did 500 miles staying below 3500 revs on oil put in by Vocky (think was mineral) then the oil was changed by back on track (again not fully synthetic) think semi. Raised revs then to 5000 until 1000 miles when oil was changed again to fully synthetic. Then started using it to 7000 but really only when doing fueling runs. Went to Zandvort and used it fully (upto 7000 still as it wont rev to 7500). Martin S

Well I'm sure Vocky knows more than me about the specifics of his engine (ie bore to piston clearances + ring types/clearances for you engine), but based on my experience, as I mentioned I think it can be hard to wear an engine in on the road, and I found I needed a lot of miles and had to be as aggressive as I could be safely on the road. However, if you really are burning oil, personally I'd return to using mineral oil and thrash the engine up and down the revs as much as you can for a lot of miles (at least 1000, maybe 2000). As he built the engine though, I think you'd be best contacting him first though to see what his opinion is. I would imagine you really need to try and find a solution before it gets worse, 1 litre of oil per 100 miles is mental consumption, even at it's worst mine only consumed 1/5th of that, and after my above remedy it now only consumes about 1/10th of yours. Burning that much oil might affect AFRs (if it was mapped before the consumption rose) and lower the pinking threshold (as oil will have a lower octane to quality petrol) and will be coating your valves, piston crowns and runners with huge amounts of oily soot. Good luck chasing it down. Nev.

Edited by Nev, 01 October 2015 - 07:15 AM.

[MAXR]

I use very little oil & I bedded in my newly rebuilt Vocky engine by driving the same as always on track. It seems pretty good to me now?

[vocky]

I think you guys are missing the point, this is a Saab assembled bottom end, which has never been apart from the factory. Thus OEM pistons, rings and bore tolerances.

 

Nev might be on to something with the bore glazing, so he might need to go back to Mineral oil again.

[Nev]

I think you guys are missing the point, this is a Saab assembled bottom end, which has never been apart from the factory. Thus OEM pistons, rings and bore tolerances.   Nev might be on to something with the bore glazing, so he might need to go back to Mineral oil again.

Ah, I didn't realise that the short engine was still all Saab Vocky.

[fezzasus]

There's no difference between mineral and synthetic oil, especially since Castrol went to court in the early 90's to have mineral oil also sold as synthetic. There is no performance difference as they are all formulated to the same performance requirements. The idea that mineral oil should be used for running in is hocus.

 

FYI. The running in procedure for an engine test evaluating valvetrain wear and cylinder polish (thus requiring minimum wear through break in) is as follows:

 

2500 rpm 5 Nm torque, 5 min

4200 rpm, 100 Nm, 5 min

4200 rpm full load, 5 min

4200 rpm, full load, 35 min

 

 

 

[Rosssco]

I think you guys are missing the point, this is a Saab assembled bottom end, which has never been apart from the factory. Thus OEM pistons, rings and bore tolerances.

 

Nev might be on to something with the bore glazing, so he might need to go back to Mineral oil again.

 

I was going to say, I thought it was a standard engine (critical components), therefore I couldn't imagine Saab 9-3 or Vectra 2.0T drivers applying such a strict running in process! The Vectra especially will be hammered out the forecourt, then sit at 85mph on the motorway for 2-3 hours..

[Sutol]

Do you really have to run these engines in as pedantically as that. After all it is a new modern engine, modern engines aren't run in such a laborious manner. The engine has all the stocks Saab internals so I can't see why you should need to run in as has been suggested.

[siztenboots]

Valve stems?

[oakmere]

There is something wrong with the engine as it will not rev above 7000 rpm when it should happily reach 8000. For that amount of consumption I think either the oil level is too high, the valve in the inlet has failed allowing boost pressure in to the crank or a piston / ring fail. I think it is allowing boost pressure into the crank case as this will restrict the rpm and reduce power.

[MartinS]

It will rev above but on power runs the power drops off a cliff at 7000. I had the rev limit at 7500 so raised it to 7800 the other night to see if there was some form of soft limiter going on but the power still drops off totally at 7000.

This has stage 2 cams, dbilas springs , 3.0 pullet, etc etc.

 

Martin S

 

[The Batman]

Got a graph?

[smiley]

or a log.

 

[Nev]

Are you sure your timing is correct? That might explain the lack of power as a separate issue to the oil issue.

[Kieran McC]

If it's glazed bores does that mean head off and the rings being replaced ?

[Nev]

Also, check your cam marking stamps and get the company to send you an email on their profile to be sure you have the right ones in there, it wouldn't take much for the wrong cams to get sent out and cause major power issues.

[Nev]

If it's glazed bores does that mean head off and the rings being replaced ?

Maybe. Sometimes it's semi recoverable (in my limited experience), as I tried to describe above.

Edited by Nev, 01 October 2015 - 06:49 PM.

[Nev]

There's no difference between mineral and synthetic oil, especially since Castrol went to court in the early 90's to have mineral oil also sold as synthetic. There is no performance difference as they are all formulated to the same performance requirements. The idea that mineral oil should be used for running in is hocus.   FYI. The running in procedure for an engine test evaluating valvetrain wear and cylinder polish (thus requiring minimum wear through break in) is as follows:   2500 rpm 5 Nm torque, 5 min 4200 rpm, 100 Nm, 5 min 4200 rpm full load, 5 min 4200 rpm, full load, 35 min

Yes, that's all wonderful theory, but his run in procedure didn't work. Now we are trying to help the OP move forward with real life practical help.

Edited by Nev, 01 October 2015 - 06:49 PM.