706 replies to this topic

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Your right vocky it's the stage 3 cams which are for 2.4 and high reving engines I read the wrong paragraph

Edited by CHILL Gone DUTCH, 24 December 2015 - 03:45 PM.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Here is the stage 2 -The Stage 2 cams are the next step, they will raise your powerband about 700-1000rpm, they will make peak power around 7500-7800rpm! They will require an ATI balancer to help reduce engine vibrations at the new high RPMs.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Info here for anyone interested http://zzperformance...mance-cams.html Open up the description tab

Edited by CHILL Gone DUTCH, 24 December 2015 - 03:53 PM.

[Nev]

Wow, this woeful saga from a cat failure/blockage

 

 

[ArticMonkey]

So all the drama and bad mouthing of the Saab engine has turned out to be a very simple issue. Glad it's all sorted now. Get some track time under your belt and don't worry about revving past 7k.

Edited by ArticMonkey, 25 December 2015 - 01:51 PM.

[Sutol]

So why would the cat suddenly decide to melt?

[Kieran McC]

So why would the cat suddenly decide to melt?

To much heat coming from the engine for some reason

[leevx2.2]

So why would the cat suddenly decide to melt?

Heat and fuel I don't think it was sudden its been killing every cat it has had fitted with from day one

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Lambda ?

[vocky]

making good power lower down the rpm scale means the engine is more efficient, I guess the TMS manifold is causing a restriction and probably not the best one to choose for 300+ bhp.

 

A Harrop and a full 3" exhaust would most likely yield strong power, but personally I think that would be too much bhp for a vx220.

 

Hopefully now that the excessive crank pressure has been removed (exhaust blockage) the bores won't be too worn, however this engine will always use more oil because of the exhaust problems it endured.

[vocky]

Lambda ?

 

I seriously doubt it works very well

[vocky]

So all the drama and bad mouthing of the Saab engine has turned out to be a very simple issue.  

it's a shame that my advice was ignored - "run it in for 1k and then put it on a rolling road to be mapped"

 

All this would never have happened ........

Edited by vocky, 26 December 2015 - 10:04 AM.

[CocoPops]

So all the drama and bad mouthing of the Saab engine has turned out to be a very simple issue.  

it's a shame that my advice was ignored - "run it in for 1k and then put it on a rolling road to be mapped"   All this would never have happened ........

But the Dutch software is the best and can be mapped on the road, whilst driving to the shops

[leevx2.2]

So all the drama and bad mouthing of the Saab engine has turned out to be a very simple issue.  

it's a shame that my advice was ignored - "run it in for 1k and then put it on a rolling road to be mapped"   All this would never have happened ........

But the Dutch software is the best and can be mapped on the road, whilst driving to the shops

I wouldn't say it's the best and deff better to be mapped on a rolling road .

[MartinS]

I don't ever remember anyone ever say 'run it in and then get it mapped!. The whole point of the dutch software, was to map the car.

From the day I got the car and things went wrong on the way home, I should have known it wasn't going to go well.

Then the first cat then fell apart, the second one was possibly damaged when the internal oil loss was at its worst and which also possibly messed up the mapping.

A lot of this was caused by the pressure on the inlet manifold by a gasket not being sealed fully. Once that was sorted no more oil blew by but by then it seems through that that, or over fuelling had killed the cat and caused more problems.

Following advice from Chill and Frank (who have been brilliant through this) the cat was checked twice and I was told twice it was fine, it seems incorrectly.

 

I would still say that if anyone fancied fitting a Saab engine, don't. It has cost large amounts of money (more than my daughters vx) for some gain and has lost me most of the summer. It simply hasn't been worth the grief. 

If your bored and want the whole torrid tale (I'll post it), I kept track as I had hoped it would all be good and help other Saab engine converters. It isn't, it just highlights why you should stick with an ecotec.

Martin S

 

 

Edited by MartinS, 26 December 2015 - 10:40 AM.

[MartinS]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]SAAB  engine history. July 2015 - Dec-2015[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Saab engine bought as we were given the impression one of these will just drop in, bought as my cars getting older and has been in reserve for 2 years in case my original dies. After around 100 track days and 70000 miles a piston finally goes and munches my engine. Due to timescales and events coming up, decide to finally use the Saab engine instead of just fitting another Ecotec (big, big mistake).[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Technical info  car now-[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]SAAB b207 Engine fitted July 2015. 71000 miles. Includes all below-[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Injectors, Siemens 630cc [/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Cam shafts, stage 2 ZZP Com cams[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Exhaust ports opened up[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Dbilas up rated springs[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Lightened flywheel (Elise parts 5.5kg)[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]New up rated clutch, Courtenay sport [/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Up rated fuel pump, Courtenay 255 model.[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]New trigger wheel[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Sc now all 6 tooth pulley. [/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]New Coil pack July 2015[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]New plugs (NGK iridium 6's)[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]3.0 modular pulley and 1275 6pk belt[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]I am told this set up should achieve 280-300 bhp when I start all this process.[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]The story so far -[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Drove home after its been fitted and set up (150 miles) , hottest day of the year and luckily stop at a friend's after 2 hours. We notice oil everywhere. [/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Check oil level and top it up with 2 litres (the Saab engine take 7 litres apparently!) In total on the way home it loses 3 litres and the engine was very close to not even making it home. Turned out that the top cap of the oil filter wasn't sealing properly (seals sold with them now arent right). Oil everywhere car cleaned and oil leak solved, but, on the way home an exhaust manifold bolt also seemed snapped and the car spent the last 40 miles of its journey home, spewing oil and sounding terrible. Not the start I wanted![/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Many hours under car, oil leak solved and new engine and car cleaned up from the mess but, the manifold bolt was a major job, I gave up after several hours of grief under the car and it went to a garage and they ended up having to take the manifold off to resolve it. Cost a chunk of cash of cash but now rolling again.[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Started mapping process. Car still started badly when cold and ran rich around town.  [/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Car runs hot most of the time, averaging between 93 and 97 even at 3000 revs on a cool evening.[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Car squeals like a pig and is embarrassing to drive for first 10 minutes after start up. I had been told the 1285 belt fitted was tight and plan to fit a bigger one very soon. 1290 fitted and the car still squeals for the first 10 minutes of driving.[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Engine feel a bit rough, may be the vibratechincs mounts (wouldn't fit them if I did this again probably).[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Up rated Courtenay clutch feels good.[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Cam cover breather pipe exits through the diffuser, but since I first got the car, this pipe sprays a fine mist of oil over the under tray and all over the rear of the car, leaving a small oil pool on the garage floor every time I stop. Not good and needs to be addressed.[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Oil change at 500 miles (was informed that you should only use semi synthetic until its  fully run in), temp sensor checked (all ok) and a new 1290 sc belt fitted.  Car still squeals embarrassingly for the first 20 minutes now.[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Noticed 650 injectors defined in the mapping software not the Siemens 630 that had been fitted. Peter had never dealt with a car with 630s and had assumed we meant them as that's what the others had used. Not sure why 630's were fitted and why something tried and tested wasn't installed? Info found for 630s and new base map supplied by Peter (OBD tuner software guy). Have to start the mapping process again. [/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]First good news. The car passes its MOT! Was convinced it would fail on emissions.[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Exhaust vibrated loose, retightened. The exhaust touching the diffuser may have been the main cause of extra vibrations, not the engine mounts.[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Fitted an Apexi filter with an alloy intake pipe. Later removed as the car runs worse with it than the old cone filter.[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Car still squeals and is embarrassing to be in, along with the rough feel this is turning out to be as unpleasant as I imagined. [/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Start revving engine to full revs and exhaust back box and downpipe flexi joints blow apart! Get fixed and on way to Zandvoort the flexi joint blows apart. Fixed in Holland with help from some amazing people and a new bigger downpipe fitted (thanks Frank, chill, Stefan, joe etc). Car still squeals at all revs.[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Another visit to Milton keynes (300 mile round trip) to try to resolve squealing, no luck). Breather pipe now fitted that feeds the breather pipe into the inlet of the sc[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]New smaller pulley fitted to try to resolve squealing and raise power as its only showing around 250 on the power runs via obd software. Also yet another oil change (3 done by Bot during its first 1000 miles)[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Alternator packs up on the way back from Bot.[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Squeal solved, but power no better and car is burning a litre every 100 miles!!![/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Car rescued back to Bot to have a new alternator fitted.[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Off to the national where its not much cop. Where last year on an old Ecotec I could hit 130 ish down the Bentley straight, now getting 120 at best but 110 when the cars hot. Go through 3 litres of oil on the day and the new Saab metal coolant pipe breaks spewing out coolant, but luckily get it fixed by a garage at then track.  7 plugs tried, made no difference, just starts worse Car runs up to 110 on track as usual and as usual I have to come in early every session. Change software map to turn fans on at 100 not 95 c[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Back to Back on track to try to resolve oil issues. New Pcv valve fitted and problem found with the seating of the inlet manifold gasket which has been letting air into the engine , pressurising it  and blowing oil out. [/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Oil catch tank fitted and breather pipe from that, put into another catch tank, just to see what's going on now. Since the manifold gasket fix, no oil is now coming out of the breather pipe whereas at Snetterton there was lots..[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]More logging runs done (fuel and ignition) (been doing at least 2 a week since the conversion was done and its getting very boring now). Car still has less power than it had as an old Ecotec, runs lumpier and simply isn't as good and noticed it wont produce power over 7000 revs. Map changed to not limit power when inlet temps are hot, made no difference.[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]After many power runs, log files etc and via a lot of help from Frank and Chill and Peter, its decided my throttle pedal isn't working right and they think I may have a manifold leak, so its off  to Back on track again (used to go there once a year and now its once a month, each time is another day off and getting very frustrating now).[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]New throttle fitted (second hand one) and exhaust leak found (around the top of the Dutch downpipe). Also new fuel filter fitted. On the way home the car runs even worse with an even spikier throttle and weird power fluctuations.[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Exhaust off the car again and several cracks found around the top of the middle exhaust section (Dutch part) all re welded and made good.  Re fitted. Cat checked and deemed all good.[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]New fuelling runs done and log files and a power run. Worst ever, car feels terrible like it did coming back from Back on track. Am told there is a blockage somewhere, so even though the cat was checked it must be that somehow, am also told throttle is still showing as weird in the software. [/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]An older map (September version)  was re installed as this was the best the car had been.[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Car is still going through a litre of oil every 80-100 miles in normal use. It is also now (a newish thing I think?!) going through fuel at 15-20mpg).[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Give up and give it to Matt and Lee to try and fix.  After a lot of effort and hard work, they fix it. [/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Cat removed, bigger pump for the charge cooler and a load of things tried and changed, and lots of mapping.[/font]

 

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]I havent got it back yet so have no idea how it feels or goes but hopefully it will be norm al now and not misbehave.[/font]

[font="arial, sans-serif;"]Thank you so much boys..[/font]

 

[MartinS]

I'm done now with this now, no more Saab or VX chat for a while.

I hope to get the car back, and hopefully its all great from then on, but when it is back, I'm going to put it in the garage and ignore it and have a few vx free months, as I've had enough.

Cant believe I've even felt I had to respond today, but I did, now I'm done. Its boxing day, so now I'm off to the pub with family and friends and if anyone I see even mentions my car they will regret it.

 

Have a good one people.

 

Martin S

 

 

 

[FLD]

Have a good break from it dude. I've been it that point with mine before and it's not nice. Fingers crossed its all sorted now.

[Zoobeef]

I have a feeling were going to have a late winter anyway so you aren't going to miss anything from a break! Can't you having any practice before I'm back anyway

[vocky]

Take a deep breath and clear your mind when you next sit behind the wheel of your vx, push the start button and just enjoy the drive home

 

Martin and his vx = https://www.youtube....h?v=78b67l_yxUc