706 replies to this topic

[Nev]

Oil has 4 ways to escape this engine as far as I'm aware: 1. Gets up past the rings and gets burnt. 2. Gets down past the valve stem seals. 3. Is ejected from the crank/cam case breather. 4. Simple oil leak from somewhere obvious like a gasket. Point 3 has been eliminated by using a temporary bottle of some sort as a breather with reportedly little content. Point 4 has been eliminated as he reports no visible oil leak. This leaves point 1 or 2 as viable candidates IMO. This is why I think the bores may be glazed or rings not bedded in. It's unlikely that his new valve stem seals have perished already, though possibly one or more has popped off (this happens on Z20LETs sometimes) which would allow a lot of oil to get into the cylinder(s). Aside from a leakdown + compression test, the following might give some clues: 1. Leave the car standing for 24 hours. Start up, if a puff of blue smoke is seen then possible leaking valve stem seals. 2. Drive the car hard with someone else following, blue/black smoke at high engine load indicates possible (oil) ring failure and/or glazed bores. 3. Look on the back of the clam to see if it is marked with dots of oil (indicates oil being partly burnt and ejected from the tailpipes or liquid oil ejected from somewhere like a leaking breather). HTH.

Edited by Nev, 02 October 2015 - 10:04 AM.

[Exmantaa]

Just thinking out loud here...

Did your old 2.2 engine not have a ringland failure on one piston??

Could it be that the cause of this failure (bad fuelling in 1 cylinder?) was transferred onto your new engine, causing the same now?

 

Thinking 1 bad injector or maybe air leak that caused detonation/failure of 1 piston... (This is not picked up by the O2 sensor, as that simply averages exhaust gasses over 4 cylinders and compensates fuel trims by running the other 3 a tad richer...

Any clues on reading the spark plugs?

[siztenboots]

where did the cylinder head come from , or is it oem saab and oem gaskets?

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Just thinking out loud here... Did your old 2.2 engine not have a ringland failure on one piston?? Could it be that the cause of this failure (bad fuelling in 1 cylinder?) was transferred onto your new engine, causing the same now?   Thinking 1 bad injector or maybe air leak that caused detonation/failure of 1 piston... (This is not picked up by the O2 sensor, as that simply averages exhaust gasses over 4 cylinders and compensates fuel trims by running the other 3 a tad richer... Any clues on reading the spark plugs?

The old engine to my knowledge was on CS map standard internals and different injectors New engine is on obd tuner and Siemens injectors I think

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

where did the cylinder head come from , or is it oem saab and oem gaskets?

Full Saab setup with different springs I think

[Bargi]

It's all brand new Saab. Except for stg 2 cams and the usual mods to make it work. ArticMonkey is having similar probs with top end revving and they're very similar setup.

[Exmantaa]

We have here (in NL) 4 engines in B207-alike configuration running; 2.0 stock block with an exhaust ported Saab head, a pair of aftermarket cams (ZZP stage 1 and 2) with the DBilas springs and M62 or Harrop SC-ed. And all a standard LSJ type closed PCV system.

Two run with OBD tuner and two run with the LSJ ecu. And they are tracked regurarely, no oil problems and rev straight into the rev limiters ~7,5K...

 

Only major difference with the UK conversions I can think of is the crank trigger set-up. The 2 LSJ ecu's run with the stock 60-2 internal triggerwheel & sensor. Dominique converted the internal triggerwheel to a Z22SE pattern wheel and Smiley's engine runs a custom external triggerwheel and sensor pick-up. (that is different than the UK/Vocky versions)

 

Maybe there is something playing up with his external crank pick-up at high revs?? (But you would think misfiring etc. or other engine mailfunctions.  )

Nothing that explains the massive oil consumption though => a.s.a.p. check pistons with compression/leak down test and that PCV valve...

Edited by Exmantaa, 02 October 2015 - 12:47 PM.

[Graeme Lambert]

Maybe there is something playing up with his external crank pick-up at high revs?? (But you would think misfiring etc. or other engine mailfunctions.  )

Nothing that explains the massive oil consumption though => a.s.a.p. check pistons with compression/leak down test and that PCV valve...

 

I'm as oblivious to the cause of this problem as the next man, but regarding the above, didn't Artic mention he had a misfire at higher revs when he was on track? Or did I imagine that?  

[Bargi]

 

Maybe there is something playing up with his external crank pick-up at high revs?? (But you would think misfiring etc. or other engine mailfunctions.  )

Nothing that explains the massive oil consumption though => a.s.a.p. check pistons with compression/leak down test and that PCV valve...

 

I'm as oblivious to the cause of this problem as the next man, but regarding the above, didn't Artic mention he had a misfire at higher revs when he was on track? Or did I imagine that?  

 

 

yep, I reckon downing plug gaps could help him there, but that could be a red herring as Chill feels more advance could help, but the worry is it'll bring power above the safe levels of the 2.0 internals which is why he's looking for the smaller pulley

 

bless, they joys of chooning

[Graeme Lambert]

 

 

Maybe there is something playing up with his external crank pick-up at high revs?? (But you would think misfiring etc. or other engine mailfunctions.  )

Nothing that explains the massive oil consumption though => a.s.a.p. check pistons with compression/leak down test and that PCV valve...

 

I'm as oblivious to the cause of this problem as the next man, but regarding the above, didn't Artic mention he had a misfire at higher revs when he was on track? Or did I imagine that?  

 

 

yep, I reckon downing plug gaps could help him there, but that could be a red herring as Chill feels more advance could help, but the worry is it'll bring power above the safe levels of the 2.0 internals which is why he's looking for the smaller pulley

 

bless, they joys of chooning

 

 

Bigger pulley?  

[Bargi]

 

 

 

Maybe there is something playing up with his external crank pick-up at high revs?? (But you would think misfiring etc. or other engine mailfunctions.  )

Nothing that explains the massive oil consumption though => a.s.a.p. check pistons with compression/leak down test and that PCV valve...

 

I'm as oblivious to the cause of this problem as the next man, but regarding the above, didn't Artic mention he had a misfire at higher revs when he was on track? Or did I imagine that?  

 

 

yep, I reckon downing plug gaps could help him there, but that could be a red herring as Chill feels more advance could help, but the worry is it'll bring power above the safe levels of the 2.0 internals which is why he's looking for the smaller pulley

 

bless, they joys of chooning

 

 

Bigger pulley?  

 

 

yes, bigger pulley it's Friday!

I'm sure Chill will confirm it all.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

 

 

 

Maybe there is something playing up with his external crank pick-up at high revs?? (But you would think misfiring etc. or other engine mailfunctions.  ) Nothing that explains the massive oil consumption though => a.s.a.p. check pistons with compression/leak down test and that PCV valve...

  I'm as oblivious to the cause of this problem as the next man, but regarding the above, didn't Artic mention he had a misfire at higher revs when he was on track? Or did I imagine that?    

  yep, I reckon downing plug gaps could help him there, but that could be a red herring as Chill feels more advance could help, but the worry is it'll bring power above the safe levels of the 2.0 internals which is why he's looking for the smaller pulley   bless, they joys of chooning  

  Bigger pulley?    

  yes, bigger pulley it's Friday! I'm sure Chill will confirm it all.

Yes we want to put on a bigger pulley to control the top end power which will allow us to add more ignition As we seem to be getting close to the max power of the internals before optimum ignition, -1 degree ish Artic monkeys is suffering from misfire high up rpm range when things start to get hotter It could be somthing retarding in the ignition which is pulling down the ignition levels to far down and causing the misfire hence the reason why I want to get more ignition in to stop the ecu retarding that much , but as mentioned before we are making more and more power whilst adding ignition which is to close for comfort of the internals , which is why I want artic monkey to create less boost with the BIGGER pulley which I'm hoping will allow to add ignition ( optimum ) and keep the ignition high enough to stop the splutter/ misfire Or It could be the spark plugs require to be gapped lower and a different temp operating temp range The only other thing that could be causing it is the coil pack but we need to take one step at a time

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

I don't think martins and artic monkeys problems are the same ( yet ) But artic does need to control crank pressure also He is deffo creating crank pressure We suspect he may of got oil levels wrong at some point I also think some more miles on the engine will help

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

All the above is knock dependant 😎

[Sutol]

Since opening up the pcv via the intake manifold gasket on my z22se my oil consumption has dramatically reduced. I used under half a litre over the Snet w/e, I estimate it would have been 4x that without the mod. It just illustrates what an effect the pcv system can have.

[Captain Vimes]

Since opening up the pcv via the intake manifold gasket on my z22se my oil consumption has dramatically reduced. I used under half a litre over the Snet w/e, I estimate it would have been 4x that without the mod. It just illustrates what an effect the pcv system can have.

Oil use is a strange one - My PCV (Z22) is blocked and I don't use a drop of oil...

[Exmantaa]

 

Yes we want to put on a bigger pulley to control the top end power which will allow us to add more ignition As we seem to be getting close to the max power of the internals before optimum ignition, -1 degree ish Artic monkeys is suffering from misfire high up rpm range when things start to get hotter It could be somthing retarding in the ignition which is pulling down the ignition levels to far down and causing the misfire hence the reason why I want to get more ignition in to stop the ecu retarding that much , but as mentioned before we are making more and more power whilst adding ignition which is to close for comfort of the internals , which is why I want artic monkey to create less boost with the BIGGER pulley which I'm hoping will allow to add ignition ( optimum ) and keep the ignition high enough to stop the splutter/ misfire Or It could be the spark plugs require to be gapped lower and a different temp operating temp range The only other thing that could be causing it is the coil pack but we need to take one step at a time

 

 

Cheap BKR7E's gapped to .8mm should be OK for some serious SC power; Simply replace after each service. Although I do not know the limits of the wasted spark module, I run 4 coil-on-plugs.

Interested you to hear your findings on optimum spark advance and I will PM you about this when I start tinkering with my management again, but a 2.0 and 2.2 engine will have different needs for spark timing... (Piston time @ TDC, compression ratio etc...)

 

But back to solving Martin's problem engine...   

[Kieran McC]

Since opening up the pcv via the intake manifold gasket on my z22se my oil consumption has dramatically reduced. I used under half a litre over the Snet w/e, I estimate it would have been 4x that without the mod. It just illustrates what an effect the pcv system can have.

Oil use is a strange one - My PCV (Z22) is blocked and I don't use a drop of oil...

On the CS mapping the PCV is blocked as is mine

[PaulCP]

Since opening up the pcv via the intake manifold gasket on my z22se my oil consumption has dramatically reduced. I used under half a litre over the Snet w/e, I estimate it would have been 4x that without the mod. It just illustrates what an effect the pcv system can have.

Oil use is a strange one - My PCV (Z22) is blocked and I don't use a drop of oil...

On the CS mapping the PCV is blocked as is mine

Oil consumption on my (old) VX was negligible with the PCV blocked.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

I'm sure Martin will be getting a compression test done soon So we can move on from piston/ring failure