306 replies to this topic

[Zoobeef]

Again mine is with Quantoms and for track time only. I found the best way was to ask the person who would be setting them up that i trusted and went with that, putting my fingers in my ears to any other reccomendations

[The Batman]

Mine are nitron 2 ways for reference I agree with Mark either ask someone you trust that is setting them up or steal people's cars

[Firthy]

425 - 550 is bearable on the road & track and a nice compromise.    Sorry just re-read your post 450-550 should be good IMO    

  Elliot, do you have any helper/tender springs? 

Yes mate, My car is understeering badly tbh so I'm not much use for advice at the moment! Randy recommended my spring rates and I think he had an off day! I have 46m Nitrons (randy valve ing) I will be moving to 525 / 650 I'm currently at 450 on the front which is too much of a gap hence the front is falling over and under steering! Hopefully the move to 525 will stop it. No idea on helpers but I have them!

[Captain Vimes]

Good advice. I like the idea of stealing people's cars for a drive.. In the mean time I trust the wisdom of.Org. Both Firthy and Max's cars were going round the corners well at Snetterton and I know from previous experience that Mark's car is rapid too, so most of the options are likely to work and be an improvement over where I am.

[Captain Vimes]

425 - 550 is bearable on the road & track and a nice compromise.    Sorry just re-read your post 450-550 should be good IMO    

  Elliot, do you have any helper/tender springs? 

Yes mate, My car is understeering badly tbh so I'm not much use for advice at the moment! Randy recommended my spring rates and I think he had an off day! I have 46m Nitrons (randy valve ing) I will be moving to 525 / 650 I'm currently at 450 on the front which is too much of a gap hence the front is falling over and under steering! Hopefully the move to 525 will stop it. No idea on helpers but I have them!

Thanks. Are you at 450/650 at the moment?

[Firthy]

425 - 550 is bearable on the road & track and a nice compromise.    Sorry just re-read your post 450-550 should be good IMO    

  Elliot, do you have any helper/tender springs? 

Yes mate, My car is understeering badly tbh so I'm not much use for advice at the moment! Randy recommended my spring rates and I think he had an off day! I have 46m Nitrons (randy valve ing) I will be moving to 525 / 650 I'm currently at 450 on the front which is too much of a gap hence the front is falling over and under steering! Hopefully the move to 525 will stop it. No idea on helpers but I have them!

Thanks. Are you at 450/650 at the moment?

Yes car at Snetterton was 450 / 650 and understeered badly. As Matt says you need to get the balance right.... Your dampers will need revalving if your planning on keeping the streets & jumping 200lb... I think you can get away with 100lb max

Edited by Firthy, 07 October 2015 - 09:14 PM.

[Matthew Bentley Racing Ltd]

Good advice. I like the idea of stealing people's cars for a drive.. In the mean time I trust the wisdom of.Org. Both Firthy and Max's cars were going round the corners well at Snetterton and I know from previous experience that Mark's car is rapid too, so most of the options are likely to work and be an improvement over where I am.

 

 

Again mine is with Quantoms and for track time only. I found the best way was to ask the person who would be setting them up that i trusted and went with that, putting my fingers in my ears to any other reccomendations

 

 

Mine are nitron 2 ways for reference I agree with Mark either ask someone you trust that is setting them up or steal people's cars

 

 

................there seems to be some common points with the cars that are going round corners well..............

 

 

 

Thanks Mark.

 

There doesn't seem to be a standard that everyone has settled on for road/track work. I'm now more confused than when I started

 

 

There shouldn't be a 'standard'. Every car should be spec'd for its components and use. Lee, Max, Bill etc all have SC VX's, all with Quantum Singleways but all have slightly different rates both helper and main springs.

 

For instance Mark has high-ish main spring rates with low-ish helper spring rates, but his car was only every going on track, Lee and Bill both wanted to use their cars on the road so I had to help the road comfort as best as I could. 

 

 

 

Probably the spring rates not working with the camber. What did the tyre wear look like after the national?

 

 

 

Tyre wear is pretty even. The rears are still scrubbing the outside shoulder a bit more than I'd like but overall they're surprisingly intact and much better than before I fitted the ARB. edit to add - before the ARB, the fronts were wearing on the nearside shoulder (inside shoulder of drivers side, outside on passenger) on right handed circuits - which would make the steering pull noticeably to the left on the road. The ARB seems to have solved this,

 

 

It could just be sh*t tyres (RSR's) the latest set don't feel as sticky as the last set I had (could just be in the mind though). I'm going to move to the ZZR's shortly so hoping to put a bit more load through the suspension as a result and want the springs to match.

 

 

Rear needs more camber (I guess knew that) and if you track a lot the as you already know spring rate need to go up. 

 

You will struggle on RSR's on those rates, the carcus/side wall will 'fall over' under load. With your spring rates and front camber that is possibly one of your main issues.

 

ZZR's are a really good call, will help massively but think you will still struggle with understeer even though the overall grip level will go up.

[Captain Vimes]

Deleted while I read Matt's post.

Edited by Captain Vimes, 07 October 2015 - 09:36 PM.

[Sutol]

What we need is a spring pool so we can try them out without ending up with a vast collection of springs.

[Captain Vimes]

Matt, how do I avoid the understeer? I assume it's not a simple answer and includes camber, dampers, springs etc all matched to work together? Rather than trying to get one setup for road and track, perhaps 2 sets of dampers would be simpler with a switch before track days... (or maybe just buy 2 cars....)

[Foxy]

I know what your problem is Captain...you're going too bloody fast! Slow down a bit and all will be well

[Matthew Bentley Racing Ltd]

Matt, how do I avoid the understeer? I assume it's not a simple answer and includes camber, dampers, springs etc all matched to work together? Rather than trying to get one setup for road and track, perhaps 2 sets of dampers would be simpler with a switch before track days... (or maybe just buy 2 cars....)

 

 

Are we sticking with the dampers you have or are we changing them?

[Captain Vimes]

What we need is a spring pool so we can try them out without ending up with a vast collection of springs.

  I like this idea! Happy to contribute some springs!

I know what your problem is Captain...you're going too bloody fast! Slow down a bit and all will be well

  But I was desperate for a p*ss!  

Matt, how do I avoid the understeer? I assume it's not a simple answer and includes camber, dampers, springs etc all matched to work together? Rather than trying to get one setup for road and track, perhaps 2 sets of dampers would be simpler with a switch before track days... (or maybe just buy 2 cars....)

    Are we sticking with the dampers you have or are we changing them?

If it can be done with current dampers that would be great.

[Matthew Bentley Racing Ltd]

Sticking with your current dampers I would go for 650lb rears with 275 or 300lb helpers, and 500lb fronts with 200 or 250lb helpers (I will ask Nitron tomorrow what the lb limit is on street series)

 

Other option is a set of single way Quantums or the new 'NTR40 Clubsport' dampers I am developing with Nitron.

 

Actually going to be looking to test the dampers on a couple of cars very soon..............

[Captain Vimes]

Thanks Matt. Your advice is very welcome and if you could pick up with nitron, that would be superb! If you need a test car.... :-)

[Matthew Bentley Racing Ltd]

Will do

[Acidpopstar]

I run Cornering Force spec Nitron NTR40 with 300f and 450r springs. I bought these second hand. I couldn't afford the CF front and rear ARB that they insist on (their set up was developed with softer springs and stiffer ARBs to reduce roll without compromising ride quality on the road) so it's still got the standard ARB until I can fit the EP 1" I bought in the group buy.

 

My geo was done by Phoenix and is the 340r track spec so quite a lot of neg camber. I have never had an issue in the bends - it turns in like a gnat and is very predictable even since going SC and I haven't been on track with a VX that can lose me through the twisties. I just make sure I set the balance up right, and try to be smooth and not turn in too early. The only issue I have is heavy inside tyre wear on the fronts but that's a compromise I'm happy with. I run RSRs. It's a weird one isn't it?

 

Edit  - that does make me sound like a twat but I'm probably overcompensating for being such a cripple meaning I haven't been able to drive the sodding thing all year

Edited by Acidpopstar, 07 October 2015 - 11:12 PM.

[siztenboots]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]This is my setup[/color]

 

Nitron ntr40 fronts valved 2006 factory spec, 46 rears valved by Hofmann 2013

 

500f 600r main springs , 150f 300r 2" tender springs , plus the 1" arb , and 110/120 ride height*1 

 

CL rc6 all round, on EP alibelled discs , ABS always on , 2 channel 

 

To refresh the fronts to replace the original factory 6" black Faulkner springs, I bought from Eliseparts ; Pair Of Quantum Springs,  5" ,  500LB ,  £ 59.95 , and some second hand 2" 150lb helpers on seloc.

 

The "46" dampers rear springs were changed free of charge by Nitron from the 8" to the 6" , same 600lb , to work with the 2" 300lb helper , and I have about 10mm spare droop travel to avoid lower subframe damage.

 

I need to get the fronts serviced/regassed.

 

*1 I run 9j rear wheel with 235/40/17 , cambers 1.5° and 2.5° f/r

[Firthy]

 

 

425 - 550 is bearable on the road & track and a nice compromise.    Sorry just re-read your post 450-550 should be good IMO    

  Elliot, do you have any helper/tender springs? 

Yes mate, My car is understeering badly tbh so I'm not much use for advice at the moment! Randy recommended my spring rates and I think he had an off day! I have 46m Nitrons (randy valve ing) I will be moving to 525 / 650 I'm currently at 450 on the front which is too much of a gap hence the front is falling over and under steering! Hopefully the move to 525 will stop it. No idea on helpers but I have them!

 

 

After Randy watching my vid from Snett and looking at various photos mid corner he says my car is fine and not to touch the spring rates so I'm going to leave it. Apparently if I introduce more front spring rate I'll just get more understeer.

 

He obviously knows his stuff so I'm going to leave well alone and play with the tyre pressures and possibly camber to dial out the understeer.

 

The car was holding some pretty solid apex speed at Snet so no complaints there, Randy is telling me I need roll in the car to generate grip.

 

Just thought I would update the post to add to the confusion.

Edited by Firthy, 09 October 2015 - 10:28 AM.

[Matthew Bentley Racing Ltd]

I agree, you need the softest springs possible for the car.