306 replies to this topic

[leevx2.2]

All the names are people  who have been playing about with suspension on there vx220's  for some time ,and had other companies set up or advise them on what shocks and setup to do but Matt basically has transformed all of are cars into epic handerling cars ,i don't worry about timing myself but Max , Dave E and Mark can pedal there cars very fast and i am shore will say how much Quicker times they are doing .

Edited by leevx2.2, 09 October 2015 - 04:54 PM.

[Firthy]

All the names are people  who have been playing about with suspension on there vx220's  for some time ,and had other companies set up or advise them on what shocks and setup to do but Matt basically has transformed all of are cars into epic handerling cars ,i don't worry about timing myself but Max , Dave E and Mark can pedal there cars very fast and i am shore will say how much Quicker times they are doing .

Hi Lee, Yeah don't get me wrong, I know these guys have been around a while..... and know their cars well. I'm also not saying that Matt's setup isn't absolutely fantastic I'm sure it is.. Just to be clear I have spent the day with Matt he even came out and gave me some tuition in my car. So I have nothing against him at all! I was on the blower to him yesterday talking to him regarding setup. Even though it may come across that way it shouldn't and I don't mean it to. I hate these type of threads on seloc etc. Undoubtably there are 2 ways to go with these cars: Matt goes to the stiffer end of the spectrum, stiff ARB bigger spring rates but no doubt different damping the cars appear to have great traction. Max told me he loves his it I hear lots of good feedback. Randy goes to the softer end 1 inch ARB full soft and possibly a little more roll. I have only driven my car so as you can imagine the only thing I can go on is lap time. My car feels a lot faster compared to my previous Nitron setup but in reality it's only half a second at the moment. Hence as they say the stop watch never lies!

Edited by Firthy, 09 October 2015 - 05:24 PM.

[leevx2.2]

 

All the names are people  who have been playing about with suspension on there vx220's  for some time ,and had other companies set up or advise them on what shocks and setup to do but Matt basically has transformed all of are cars into epic handerling cars ,i don't worry about timing myself but Max , Dave E and Mark can pedal there cars very fast and i am shore will say how much Quicker times they are doing .

Hi Lee, Yeah don't get me wrong, I know these guys have been around a while..... and know their cars well. I'm also not saying that Matt's setup isn't absolutely fantastic I'm sure it is.. Just to be clear I have spent the day with Matt he even came out and gave me some tuition in my car. So I have nothing against him at all! I was on the blower to him yesterday talking to him regarding setup. Even though it may come across that way it shouldn't and I don't mean it to. I hate these type of threads on seloc etc. Undoubtably there are 2 ways to go with these cars: Matt goes to the stiffer end of the spectrum, stiff ARB bigger spring rates but no doubt different damping the cars appear to have great traction. Max told me he loves his it I hear lots of good feedback. Randy goes to the softer end 1 inch ARB full soft and possibly a little more roll. I have only driven my car so as you can imagine the only thing I can go on is lap time. My car feels a lot faster compared to my previous Nitron setup but in reality it's only half a second at the moment. Hence as they say the stop watch never lies!

 

Thats strange as Randy had allot of influance on jimmy with  his time attack car  and that was on 46's and very hard springs .What shocks are you running now ?

[Firthy]

 

All the names are people  who have been playing about with suspension on there vx220's  for some time ,and had other companies set up or advise them on what shocks and setup to do but Matt basically has transformed all of are cars into epic handerling cars ,i don't worry about timing myself but Max , Dave E and Mark can pedal there cars very fast and i am shore will say how much Quicker times they are doing .

Hi Lee, Yeah don't get me wrong, I know these guys have been around a while..... and know their cars well. I'm also not saying that Matt's setup isn't absolutely fantastic I'm sure it is.. Just to be clear I have spent the day with Matt he even came out and gave me some tuition in my car. So I have nothing against him at all! I was on the blower to him yesterday talking to him regarding setup. Even though it may come across that way it shouldn't and I don't mean it to. I hate these type of threads on seloc etc. Undoubtably there are 2 ways to go with these cars: Matt goes to the stiffer end of the spectrum, stiff ARB bigger spring rates but no doubt different damping the cars appear to have great traction. Max told me he loves his it I hear lots of good feedback. Randy goes to the softer end 1 inch ARB full soft and possibly a little more roll. I have only driven my car so as you can imagine the only thing I can go on is lap time. My car feels a lot faster compared to my previous Nitron setup but in reality it's only half a second at the moment. Hence as they say the stop watch never lies!  

Thats strange as Randy had allot of influance on jimmy with  his time attack car  and that was on 46's and very hard springs .What shocks are you running now ?

I'm running 46m Nitrons 450 - 650, I was running 40m Nitrons with 375 /475. I'm sure I will find more time on the new dampers, they're very new to me. My point is feeling fast and going fast are very different! The only fair comparison is Mark and as he said he wasn't on his a game so you can't compare. All the other cars are so different you can't really compare them. So It's very much subjective, what works for one may not work for another! Hence why mat customises each shock to each customer

Edited by Firthy, 09 October 2015 - 05:46 PM.

[leevx2.2]

Thats funny every person i have spoke to with 46's have had lots of problems with traction on the rear out of corners with 46's including Dave E and Max

[Firthy]

Thats funny every person i have spoke to with 46's have had lots of problems with traction on the rear out of corners with 46's including Dave E and Max

Yes I know this is a limitation a lot complain about, I fully recognise this. But my interest is around the compromise, is the car still progressive what apex speed are people carrying. If you watch my vid you can see how my car reacts over the limit, it yaws very well meaning I can set the car up early and power through, it's also very predictable at the limit. I have never seen one of these stiffer cars on the limit of grip or felt it and that is what I'm interested to see. Does stiffer necessarily mean faster lap time.

Edited by Firthy, 09 October 2015 - 05:56 PM.

[Firthy]

Thats funny every person i have spoke to with 46's have had lots of problems with traction on the rear out of corners with 46's including Dave E and Max

Yes I know this is a limitation a lot complain about, I fully recognise this. But my interest is around the compromise, is the car still progressive what apex speed are people carrying. If you watch my vid you can see how my car reacts over the limit, it yaws very well meaning I can set the car up early and power through, it's also very predictable at the limit. I have never seen one of these stiffer cars on the limit of grip or felt it and that is what I'm interested to see. Does stiffer necessarily mean faster lap time.

[leevx2.2]

watch some of Jimmys  time attack videos on you tube and see if you can notice anything he was running 46's on a stage 2 super charged car .

[leevx2.2]

 

Thats funny every person i have spoke to with 46's have had lots of problems with traction on the rear out of corners with 46's including Dave E and Max

Yes I know this is a limitation a lot complain about, I fully recognise this. But my interest is around the compromise, is the car still progressive what apex speed are people carrying. If you watch my vid you can see how my car reacts over the limit, it yaws very well meaning I can set the car up early and power through, it's also very predictable at the limit. I have never seen one of these stiffer cars on the limit of grip or felt it and that is what I'm interested to see. Does stiffer necessarily mean faster lap time.

 

No i would say all to do with driver and setup meaning shocks etc the only way is to drive another car like Marks to compare .

[Firthy]

watch some of Jimmys  time attack videos on you tube and see if you can notice anything he was running 46's on a stage 2 super charged car .

Are spring rates aren't far off lee I think he was 500 / 600

[leevx2.2]

 

watch some of Jimmys  time attack videos on you tube and see if you can notice anything he was running 46's on a stage 2 super charged car .

Are spring rates aren't far off lee I think he was 500 / 600

 

i think he might of gone harder but only jimmy can confirm that

[WrightStuff]

Jerusalem spec :

http://www.vx220.org...jerusalem-spec/

 

• Nitron Race 46 Coilovers, 500/650lb Eibach Springs, Race Spec valving

[MAXR]

As many of you know, my car is purely a track car. I have never had any interest in using it on the road, even if I could. When I share my experiences on this forum & with other trackers, I do so honestly & openly with no frilly bits. What I can tell you, is that my car as is currently setup does not have any wayward understeer or oversteer. Nor does it have problems putting its power down out of corners as it did on the Randy spec 46's. The car's damping is astonishing. It rides bumps & curbs without any harsh thuds, which used it unsettle the car mid apex. It is light & day better than pre MBR setup. Let's face it, all of the serious VX trackers have similar setups, that's to say, ARB, well known dampers, brakes, tyres & Geo. The difference between 200bhp & 250bhp or 300bhp & 350bhp is negligible as far as I have seen. Yes, you will gain 2-3 car lengths down a long straight, but that's it! I've driven my car twice recently after 2 years. I truly believe that whatever my best lap time was at Snet & I have no idea what it was, that I could better it by at least 2-3 seconds. I was driving well within what the car is capable of through the corners with my lack of recent track experience being the limiting factor. Not once did I check damper settings, tyre pressures or make any adjustments. The car handles like Geary's little NA VX, foot to the floor virtually everywhere with the ability to chuck it into any corner happy in the knowledge that whatever it does, it won't trouble you. I honestly feel that my car is no different in that respect. I did offer my car to several people to drive, but had no takers. Lee's car with George at the wheel was no different from what I could see on track. I do believe that my Quantums are way better on track than my 46's. Definitely more compliant & less harsh. But, more importantly, the variable/ adjustable parts on my car such as ARB, cambers, tyres, ride height, Spring rates, bump steer & brakes seem to be working in harmony, which has given me a very predictable & fully exploitable track car.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

👌 I'm hoping MBR will be able sort my rear traction issues out With a great track setup,

[Kieran McC]

👌 I'm hoping MBR will be able sort my rear traction issues out With a great track setup,

You thought fitting the Harrop was expensive 😃

[siztenboots]

The small incremental gains versus costs to get an extra mph or two corner speed by dampers , versus adding power , tyres are the cheapest way to reduce laptime imho. You go round in circles changing things before getting to a final compromise, like Max said when you have that final sweet spot you can ignore changing tyre pressures/damper adjustments and just drive it all day.

[Firthy]

Max let me tell you one thing though.... the difference between a 160 bhp Vx and 300bhp vx at a track like snetterton is enormous (or should be)!! it has the largest straight in Europe! From my experience other than a select few like yourself, the vast majority of people driving the high powered cars simply coast in to the braking zone, stop, then accelerate out. I almost rear ended a few of them. They are nowhere near the limit. Your car looks to have great grip up to the limit but then looks snappy over it from what I have seen. In the coming months I shall no doubt be proved wrong

[Matthew Bentley Racing Ltd]

Worth asking Mike Jolly, ex radical racer (couple years ago) what his vx was like 'at the limit' if no one commenting here is driving at their Cars hard enough.

[Firthy]

Worth asking Mike Jolly, ex radical racer (couple years ago) what his vx was like 'at the limit' if no one commenting here is driving at their Cars hard enough.

Any vids Matt ?

[MAXR]

Max let me tell you one thing though.... the difference between a 160 bhp Vx and 300bhp vx at a track like snetterton is enormous (or should be)!! it has the largest straight in Europe! From my experience other than a select few like yourself, the vast majority of people driving the high powered cars simply coast in to the braking zone, stop, then accelerate out. I almost rear ended a few of them. They are nowhere near the limit. Your car looks to have great grip up to the limit but then looks snappy over it from what I have seen. In the coming months I shall no doubt be proved wrong

I wouldn't say my car is snappy at all. All of my Snet vids were taken in the afternoon. I was virtually out on track for 20 mins then coming in & going out with another passenger. I did 7 pax rides. My tyres were very hot & never had a chance to cool off, neither did the engine or box. When I was following George in Lee's car, I don't think he had a passenger as I did. He was definitely quicker down the straights & I had several hard sessions prior. I only have 205f/235r tyres, they can only do so much before they go past their best. Oversteer /understeer can start rearing its ugly head. I hate having passengers as it is noticeable when driving. Driving through oversteer or lifting slightly before reapplying power/ trail braking for understeer is normal (I hope). Also, going past your natural comfort zone on a regular basis empowers you to the point where it becomes totally normal, even mundane. It is then a good gauge of how hard you can push your car & more importantly yourself. I agree, most people brake far too early or too hard, which then means they are accelerating into the corner in order to gain speed again. However, it is far more important to keep the car balanced whilst bringing in the power exiting the corner as smoothly & quickly as possible onto the straight. Getting back to your 160 BHP v 300bhp. Of course you will be at a huge disadvantage. However, your cornering speed should be near identical with similarly setup suspensioned cars. If it isn't, then you're not pushing hard enough. If anything the bigger powered cars suffer greater power loss due to the additional heat produced from extracting the added power. You should lose far less. I'm not sure if we met on track, but I'm happy to let you try my car out next time. I'd love to try out a tubby! Max