80 replies to this topic

[The Batman]

Doesn't lee have water injection

[Scuffers]

Doesn't lee have water injection

not the last time I dyno'ed and drove it it did not.

[The Batman]

He fitted it a couple years ago I also find it very unlikely if he doesn't have heat problems if he's running 350bhp What was the dyno figures out of curiosity?

[vocky]

Chasing high bhp is a costly route, especially going past 300bhp

 

260-280 bhp is plenty of power for having fun in a vx220 and if thats not quite enough then altering the gearing and/or final drive gives even more fun

 

 

[Nev]

You seriously need to consider both the cost, complexity and sheer time it takes to do off the wall projects like twin charging which is seriously hard to get right. If you want super smooth delivery of 350 BHP then I'd follow the supercharged z22 route (abeit with charge cooling issues). If you want 350 from a TC'ed car that is fairly easy too with the Z20LEx and a fast spooling turbo like the GTX28 combined with 3rd party ECU.

 

Take a look at my project thread (signature link below) and you will get an idea of the sorts of things involved. Once you've read all that, feel free to ring me (number on website).

 

Lastly (and I know I'll get roasted for this), if you are going to do such a massive project you should really aim at around 450 BHP for the road IMO. There would be little cost/effort difference between a 350 to 500 BHP Z20LEx engine, but having an open ended ability to map for more power (when you get bored inevitably) will likely end up getting used, as 350 BHP is simply not enough IMO.

 

Remember your max power will likely be at/near max revs on a tuned engine, in reality it is hard to keep the revs up there with our wide ratio gearboxes, so in actual practice most cars are driven at well below their max power level.

 

Nev.

Edited by Nev, 19 December 2015 - 08:54 AM.

[Doctor Ed]

Complexity and Time is exactly what makes builds interesting for me Agree re 350 vs 500. The 1.8 was designed around 420-440hp, I just figured I'd scale things back a little on this and make the 350 a very solid 350 with a lot of fat under the curve. It's only 800kg, lol. One of the other sig reasons for going TC in this situation, E85 is being phased out here as of jan, so am stuck with only pump fuel (can get 100Ron reasonably reliably though). Simply smashing boost with a turbocharger on pump fuel makes for a pig of a motor. SC route alone might be worth considering, or I might just try a finely/exactly built turbo setup with a nice intake and a good head.

[Harry Hornet]

 

Lastly (and I know I'll get roasted for this), if you are going to do such a massive project you should really aim at around 450 BHP for the road IMO. There would be little cost/effort difference between a 350 to 500 BHP Z20LEx engine, but having an open ended ability to map for more power (when you get bored inevitably) will likely end up getting used, as 350 BHP is simply not enough IMO.

 

Remember your max power will likely be at/near max revs on a tuned engine, in reality it is hard to keep the revs up there with our wide ratio gearboxes, so in actual practice most cars are driven at well below their max power level.

 

Nev.

 

I like my turkey well roasted

with all due respect..you'll never get out of second gear..that is if you have still got hold of the back end...that is if you havent hit the Armco all ready..

 

....Im thinking of putting a triple charged, petrol injection, v32 air induction, with a jet after burner into mine..

 

(oh well that thought lasted all of 5 seconds)

 

Nev..your project is one of the best but this idea imo , withe all due respect..is one of the better "load of bollocks" this year...

 

Merry Christmas.

HH  

[G-Bob]

Lastly (and I know I'll get roasted for this), if you are going to do such a massive project you should really aim at around 450 BHP for the road IMO. , as 350 BHP is simply not enough IMO.

FRO! x 40million! If you have a straight road like the ones in death valley that go on for 60miles in a straight line then maybe.

[mbes2]

 

Lastly (and I know I'll get roasted for this), if you are going to do such a massive project you should really aim at around 450 BHP for the road IMO. , as 350 BHP is simply not enough IMO.

FRO! x 40million! If you have a straight road like the ones in death valley that go on for 60miles in a straight line then maybe.

 

 

450Bhp in something that weighs 2 ton maybe.. 

 

300+ in a vx is fun but to really max its power usage for anything more than a few seconds on take it on track 

[siztenboots]

the only cars I see running high bhp seem to do very little miles , how long the powertrain lasts is unproven

[Nev]

 

Lastly (and I know I'll get roasted for this), if you are going to do such a massive project you should really aim at around 450 BHP for the road IMO. , as 350 BHP is simply not enough IMO.

FRO! x 40million! If you have a straight road like the ones in death valley that go on for 60miles in a straight line then maybe.

 

 

That's really not correct I'm afraid, it's easy to use the power on bends providing you have a decent map and lots of mechanical grip. Clearly you have to moderate it with conditions (just as any other aspect of driving), but there are plenty of exits/corners where it's usable.

 

Don't forget this guy is building up his car from a chassis, so he can put decent sized wheels/tyres on and wont necessarily be inhibited by existing clam arches...  

Edited by Nev, 20 December 2015 - 03:02 AM.

[G-Bob]

I wasn't saying that he shouldn't aim for 450bhp.   By all means, it's his project.

It's the statement that 350bhp in a lightweight sportscar is not enough for the road.   Overtaking is easier if you have more power, but if you are struggling to overtake and make progress in a 350bhp VX (or even a 250bhp vx for that matter) then the problem is behind the wheel, not in the engine bay.

 

If it is a track car then the more power the better, but I am really struggling (along with 98% of the people here) to know what 350bhp is "simply not enough" for on the road?

[mbes2]

Anything over 50bhp is a waste if live in London

[Nev]

If it is a track car then the more power the better, but I am really struggling (along with 98% of the people here) to know what 350bhp is "simply not enough" for on the road?

 

I guess it's hard for some people to know how open and empty the roads are in some parts of the country that they don't live in. Saturday + Sunday morning at 5.00 AM in mid Wales and you end up seeing more rabbits than cars. The roads are open, wide with great visibility and inspiring scenery - thats when you can use all the grunt. Clearly driving around in the SE or some big city etc and nobody wouldn need more than 50 BHP

 

Anyway, this guy is building the car as a track car (only?) I believe.

 

Edited by Nev, 21 December 2015 - 08:55 AM.

[G-Bob]

I fully understand how empty the roads can be, living in Scotland and regularly driving on roads where you are lucky seeing a car for 60 miles (during the day, not at night). On the country roads it's more about how fast you can go around the corners and you don't need 350bhp to do that. In fact, using all that power on some of these roads is down right dangerous as with even the slightest undulation in road you are going to unbalance the car, or if you come across a sheep just over a crest (ask Dunc and Lewis) Maybe the country roads down there are different. Anyway, sorry to the OP for the thread drift. I'll bow out now.

[Harry Hornet]

 

 Saturday + Sunday morning at 5.00 AM in mid Wales and you end up seeing more rabbits than cars. The roads are open, wide with great visibility and inspiring scenery - thats when you can use all the grunt.

 

 

I didnt realise the M4 went into Mid wales to allow a wide and open ride......and as for looking around at the scenery when in top gear using all the grunt, especially at 5:00 in the morning.......well well well...

 

...let me know what you are taking  Nev.....night vision magic mushrooms...mmmm yummy... 

[slindborg]

 Simply smashing boost with a turbocharger on pump fuel makes for a pig of a motor.

 

 

You've only ever driven EDS tuned cars?

 

 

I can see Nevs point regarding peak power will mostly be at peak revs, so in order to have a decent spread you might aim higher than you'd once think, in order to have more where you will usually use it.... Its just been said wrong and argued even wronger  

[G-Bob]

 Simply smashing boost with a turbocharger on pump fuel makes for a pig of a motor.

    You've only ever driven EDS tuned cars?     I can see Nevs point regarding peak power will mostly be at peak revs, so in order to have a decent spread you might aim higher than you'd once think, in order to have more where you will usually use it.... Its just been said wrong and argued even wronger  

Or..... Don't Chuck on parts that increase top level power. Or.... Get it mapped properly

[slindborg]

mapping is only part of the story and in some cases cna only be a sticky plaster as opposed to the final solution

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

mapping is only part of the story and in some cases cna only be a sticky plaster as opposed to the final solution