243 replies to this topic

[smiley]

Yes, you can buy the 3.3 and the 3.1. You can use a powerrun in obdtuner to see where you´re at, and then use the rpm cutoff to cut it off in the safe zone if needed.

 

[Dan r]

Do you not need to consider a torque limit? I only ever see people mention a hardware power limit?

[smiley]

Torque should be relative to the HP on a Supercharger solution.

 

[Jocke_D]

One idea I had was, if hp was showing "to much", to reduce the ignition timing advance (don't know what it's celled in english but should be something like that) to reduce combustion pressure.

The power/torque is just the result of the combustion pressure if I'm not mistaken and is what kills rods/pistons. Am I way of here?

[techieboy]

Whatever you do, don't artificially limit the power by lowering the rev limit. Having a low rev limit makes for a miserable drive given how quickly the engine likes to rev when the supercharger is doing it's thing.

[Exmantaa]

  Stock engine => 3.35" pulley +good intercooling and rpm limit max 7200rpm. Good for 250-260HP, depending on your exhaust flow.

Any smaller pulley (3.1) and you're getting close to the mechanical limits of your engine...

[Captain Vimes]

If you're only adding an ear rad and plan to go on track then I'd rethink your plans.. With the standard pulley it'll quickly heat soak the system and you'll be running very hot intake temps. You could aim for a stage 1 sc power (210 bhp) for more reliability with the small rad. Not sure on the pulley but it'd be more like 3.5"?

[chris_uk]

  Stock engine => 3.35" pulley +good intercooling and rpm limit max 7200rpm. Good for 250-260HP, depending on your exhaust flow. Any smaller pulley (3.1) and you're getting close to the mechanical limits of your engine...

7200rpm ok without dual valve springs you think ?

[Exmantaa]

Nah, it'sa bit on the edge and you should not race it constantly around those rpms, but according to the US guys that is the max rpm with (LSJ) stock lift cams. Any higher or more lift.duration and you really need stiffer springs.

 

Set it @7K and you're good. But to the OP; make sure you have GOOD chargecooling capacity!

[Jocke_D]

Some really good points. I'm soaking them up like a sponge like the noob I am

 

 

If you're only adding an ear rad and plan to go on track then I'd rethink your plans.. With the standard pulley it'll quickly heat soak the system and you'll be running very hot intake temps. You could aim for a stage 1 sc power (210 bhp) for more reliability with the small rad. Not sure on the pulley but it'd be more like 3.5"?

 

 

I know that time is probably my biggest enemy (house, wife, two sons (3 & 5)) and I really want to make every build step to work properly until the next step. So that might not be such a bad idea (even though a bit boring    ) with an even larger than stock pulley. The increase to some 210 will also make a huge difference of course even if 250 would have been even better. Say that I get 225 that would mean a 50% increase which actually is quite amazing

 

 

 

 

Regarding cooling. I'm planning on mapping it using E85, wouldn't that help a lot since I'll be using some 30% more fuel? The temp sensor, if I understand correctly, is placed before the injectors so maybe the ECU won't know about it?

 

Another thing about cooling. I read somewhere on here that a couple of guys were starting to think that there was a lot of heat soak from the water rad to the chargecooler rad. What do you guys think about two as-big-as-possible rads in serial just inside the grill. Not besides each other but in tandem. Don't know if my english is good enough to explain how I mean but I hope you get the idea

Edited by Jocke_D, 15 January 2016 - 07:21 AM.

[Rosssco]

But using E85 sounds more like a sticking plaster for intake temps that are too high.. As noted, a front mounted pre-rad is much more effective.

 

You don't have to install the expensive pro-alloy unit, many including me have plenty sucess for a basic 25-row oil cooer rad mounted vertically. I think I paid about £120 all in for the rad, piping, fittings..

[Jocke_D]

I'm not keen on band aid solutions either but in this case it's mostly a case of avoiding knock with the, hopefully, positive side effect of reducing temp. Am I wrong about the knocking idea? Here in Sweden every gas station have an E85 pump so that's no problem.

 

Would there be some advantage in using a normal engine water rad instead of an oil cooler? Or the other way around? I mean the places to look would probably increase a bit

[smiley]

Since you're going dutch, you can put in a tmap sensor in the location of the map sensor.

Now you can see the temp AFTER the supercharger in the manifold, and see how well your cooling system does. Regardless of which radiator way you go.

Over 57 degrees, and the ecu starts dialing back ignition, thus power.

 

If it's really bad, you can chuck in a bigger radiator afterwards.

 

Edited by smiley, 15 January 2016 - 09:34 PM.

[Exmantaa]

Oil cooler vertcal in the crashbox works ok for the road. And if you can easy get E85, use it in an SC engine! Liquud intercooling!! :-)

[Captain Vimes]

I went through the same thought process.. Start with an ear rad or small front rad and upgrade later if needed/when funds allow....I even bought a small fiat rad to mount under the main rad but when I got round to doing it, there was a lot of time, effort, trial and error needed to fabricate brackets and make it all work, all for a solution that would probably need replacing later for track work. I ended up just going straight to the pro alloy setup and it was straight forward to fit, good quality and works. Heat transfer between the main and cc rad probably occurs but more stationary than when on the move. And it also blocks the flow to the main rad which is working harder trying to get rid of more heat due to all of the extra power. On the plus side, now I've 'sealed' around the crash box there's a huge volume of air that gets forced through both rads at speed which you just won't get with any other approach. Coolant temp and cc water are both well managed these days and I can run long track sessions without issue. Acidpopstar has a successful setup with an ear rad and water injection, so you could try the WI route and no charge cooling as a first step?

[Jocke_D]

Sorry for my lack of replys here but I've been skiing in the Italian alps

I really appreciate all you guys interest and help !

 

 

Since you're going dutch, you can put in a tmap sensor in the location of the map sensor.

Now you can see the temp AFTER the supercharger in the manifold, and see how well your cooling system does. Regardless of which radiator way you go.

Over 57 degrees, and the ecu starts dialing back ignition, thus power.

 

If it's really bad, you can chuck in a bigger radiator afterwards.

 

 

Is there some way to benefit from the cooling the E85 offers? I mean, the combustion temps should be lower with E85 than with normal 98oct that I would use otherwise. At least I think so, am I thinking right?

My idea is to add extra cooling later on, but like I said before, time (and of couse money) is my main enemy in this

 

 

Oil cooler vertcal in the crashbox works ok for the road. And if you can easy get E85, use it in an SC engine! Liquud intercooling!! :-)

That was my idea of a bonus using E85,but will it work? How?

 

 

I went through the same thought process.. Start with an ear rad or small front rad and upgrade later if needed/when funds allow....I even bought a small fiat rad to mount under the main rad but when I got round to doing it, there was a lot of time, effort, trial and error needed to fabricate brackets and make it all work, all for a solution that would probably need replacing later for track work. I ended up just going straight to the pro alloy setup and it was straight forward to fit, good quality and works. Heat transfer between the main and cc rad probably occurs but more stationary than when on the move. And it also blocks the flow to the main rad which is working harder trying to get rid of more heat due to all of the extra power. On the plus side, now I've 'sealed' around the crash box there's a huge volume of air that gets forced through both rads at speed which you just won't get with any other approach. Coolant temp and cc water are both well managed these days and I can run long track sessions without issue. Acidpopstar has a successful setup with an ear rad and water injection, so you could try the WI route and no charge cooling as a first step?

 

WI is something I'm looking at also, but I'll use that when all the normal cooling ideas run out. Also want some more people to try it before I take the dive. I don't have the time or money to act guinea pig here

 

 

 

 

 

When Vimes said I should go with the 3.5" to make sure power is "on par" with my cooling I thougt it was a good idea. So I figured that a 3.5, a 3.3 and a 3.1 would be a suitable way to climb the power ladder. But how about 3.4, 3.2 and a 3.0 instead? I obviously want as much power as possible

Which steps (pulleys in this case) do you guys think would be best?

[smiley]

The current dutch software currently only supports 1 mapping in the ecu.

The E85 will allow sharper ignition. What happens if you are at a place with no E85 available?

 

Rumors are that the upcoming version will support multiple maps, and switch accordingly wen it detects fuel with lower ron.  

But that will probably not before end of this year, maybe even next year. Or even the year after that.

[Exmantaa]

It all depends on how available the E85 is. If it's everywhere, just put big injectors in and map for it. It will burn much cooler and you can dial in a lot more advance. (= power) But I would really put a rad in the crashbox, it's not very difficult to do and inventing an ear mounted cooler rad with the mounts an ducts is probably more work...

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

I'm not convinced adding extra ignition always makes extra power there will be a limit to how much you can add before knock but really the power will stop increasing long before then Just because you add E85 it will give more tolerance to knock and burn cooler But is it a good idea to run as much ignition as possible before knock, IMO no if the power stops increasing long before that But you might consider running a leaner mixture of you find the power is not increasing with more ignition and still not detecting knock But leaner mixture will then burn hotter 😂😂😂

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

The current dutch software currently only supports 1 mapping in the ecu. The E85 will allow sharper ignition. What happens if you are at a place with no E85 available?   Rumors are that the upcoming version will support multiple maps, and switch accordingly wen it detects fuel with lower ron.   But that will probably not before end of this year, maybe even next year. Or even the year after that.

Pro version maybe close