1815 replies to this topic

[techieboy]

 

As a percentage of our GDP, our contributions is relatively insignificant. It's like each member here having to find an extra £5 every month for a regular monthly bill (insignificant!) 

 

Why wouldn't we want a top seat at the world's biggest market? What happens if we leave the EU, it may cause fractures the EU, which would be detrimental to our growth. We are now the 2nd biggest economy after Germany in the EU & still growing the fastest.

 

Max

 

Take me as an imbecile, most people do .....whats stops our growth if we were outside the EU...if our products are good enough they will still be wanted..

 

HH

 

 

Maybe our economy will grow outside the EU (though definitely not in the short term and possibly not in the medium term) and maybe it won't. But, if we potentially wreak economic havoc within our largest export market, they certainly won't be riding to the rescue with increased imports from us if their economies are further in the doldrums, even without the possibility of our products suddenly becoming as much as 20% more expensive if tariffs are imposed under the default WTO rules.

 

Sure, we'll have to find markets elsewhere, but they are highly unlikely to take up the slack overnight, given we're already able to sell wherever we want currently (albeit without FTA's for whatever they're worth). And we're well and truly fcuked if we're not able to freely sell services into the EU - why would the Chinese etc keep using us, if it's going to cost them more and maybe not even be possible (if Paris has it's own way).

[Tony H]

Maybe our economy will grow outside the EU (though definitely not in the short term and possibly not in the medium term) and maybe it won't. But, if we potentially wreak economic havoc within our largest export market, they certainly won't be riding to the rescue with increased imports from us if their economies are further in the doldrums, even without the possibility of our products suddenly becoming as much as 20% more expensive if tariffs are imposed under the default WTO rules.

 

Sure, we'll have to find markets elsewhere, but they are highly unlikely to take up the slack overnight, given we're already able to sell wherever we want currently (albeit without FTA's for whatever they're worth). And we're well and truly fcuked if we're not able to freely sell services into the EU - why would the Chinese etc keep using us, if it's going to cost them more and maybe not even be possible (if Paris has it's own way).

 

 

If we exit via EEA, which is likely, there will be minimal economic disruption.

 

From the EEA position we would be at liberty to make our own trade deals etc to reduce the upheaval of a later shift out of the single market. (Talking a timescale of 10+ years here)

[Harry Hornet]

 

Why wouldn't we want a top seat at the world's biggest market? What happens if we leave the EU, it may cause fractures the EU, which would be detrimental to our growth. We are now the 2nd biggest economy after Germany in the EU & still growing the fastest.

 

Most trade rules are agreed by global bodies now, such as the WTO.

 

The member nations then agree to implement the laws in their own jurisdictions.

 

The EU currently represent us in these orgs. 90% of the single market legislation are the EUs take of these global rules.

 

So even if we left the single market we would still have to have a lot of these regulations. Including the ones on bent bananas!

 

There would not be a bonfire of regulations as such.

 

But crucially, the interpretation of these laws would be down to our own courts under our English legal tradition. Not the napoleonic European courts.

 

And we would represent ourselves in these increasingly influential organizations.

 

 

EU is internally free trade, but protectionist with regards to the rest of the world.

 

 

 

If we leave the EU, I reckon most likely the non-euro states will either have to follow us or join the eurozone.

 

This will be good for europe.

 

Heel-dragging non-euro states like UK are holding eurozone back.

 

 

Max

 

Thanks fort putting it so well...and there are no buts.

 

I would vote in and dir vote in when the trading block was 6,7 8.10 countries..absolutely no problem...however now we have a" Union" not a "Common Market" the "minor" countries take no heed of the rules (imo, and experience)  whilst the bigger countries take the p*ss on the minor ones as well.

 

If the vote is remain, yes i agree the UK should whole heartedly go in the Euro zone, and even drive on the left..

 

The UK cannot be in but be out..its that part that I do not understand..we cannot have our bread and eat it as well...In = 100% EU..as this will not happen, beacuse this and the following governments are fully aware it would meab losing our Soveriegnty.....

 

.so Im OUT

 

 

[MAXR]

 

As a percentage of our GDP, our contributions is relatively insignificant. It's like each member here having to find an extra £5 every month for a regular monthly bill (insignificant!) 

 

Why wouldn't we want a top seat at the world's biggest market? What happens if we leave the EU, it may cause fractures the EU, which would be detrimental to our growth. We are now the 2nd biggest economy after Germany in the EU & still growing the fastest.

 

Max

 

Take me as an imbecile, most people do .....whats stops our growth if we were outside the EU...if our products are good enough they will still be wanted..

 

HH

 

 

 

The UK market relies on significant investment from foreign multinational companies. Those companies have direct access to the european market via the UK. We have more investments from foreign companies than any other country in the world.

 

Obama also said, if we exit, we would not have preferential treatment for a trade agreement over the EU. It is likely to take years. In the meantime, we will have to abide by EU rules or have heavy tariffs on our goods. This will be compounded by a drop in the £, which everyone agrees will happen. Basically the money in your bank or pockets will buy less & be worth less. 

 

Unemployment is at record lows for many years. Global Uk companies struggle to find the right staff from our home grown market. Even with the hundreds of thousands of immigrants arriving into this country, this country makes more money from them than they hand out. Uk companies require quality staff, if that means immigrants, then of course they will choose them. Our struggling NHS relies on immigrants & foreign staff. I have not seen one polish person who doesn't work his butt off to earn his living & at the top end of the market, we are able to draw in quality highly trained individuals from the EU & globally.

 

If I have a business problem, I will seek the advice of a solicitor who is specialised in the specific area I needed. I would consider his opinion relevant & learned. I would not disregard his opinion. I may even seek the opinion of another solicitor's, just to be sure. Well, 90% of all the relevant experts & analysts agree that exiting the EU will mean lower growth for many years to come than if we stayed in. Why would you ignore so many learned people who have spent most of their lives studying such matters? Then, listen to Farage, Boris or 90 YO Mrs Jones.

 

...Then throw in Scotland, who are hell bent on staying in the EU....Rep of Ireland/northern Ireland borders ....Let's not kid ourselves, we are not the nation we once were many moons ago! Sure, we may be again in the future, but sharing problems or being part of a large family in the future will be mighty important. 

 

I do however agree that if we did exit, whichever party that is in charge, will eventually find solutions to many of the question the Brexit lot can't answer now (because they just don't know) We will eventually get mutual trade agreements & this country will not crumble to dust, but we are more than likely going to be worse off than if we had remained within the world's biggest market.

[Madmitch]

Exactly so, well put Max.  Worth noting too, that after years of trying, and failing, to take over our London Stock Exchange, the Deutsche Borse has finally managed to arrange a merger leaving it perfectly placed to steal business in the wake of an out vote.  Make no mistake, the vultures are gathering and their efforts will undoubtedly damage recovery after an out vote, perhaps ensure that we can never regain the position we now occupy in the world.

Edited by Madmitch, 10 June 2016 - 07:41 PM.

[christhegasman]

Why will an out vote on make a difference in a merger ? I guess they are in now whatever 😡

[Madmitch]

There are already plenty of people moving money and assets out of the UK in case of an out vote which they see as being likely to leave the UK and the £ weaker.  The Deutsche Borse has historically wanted to be the premier stock exchange in Europe but has never quite been able to topple the London Stock Exchange, there were always enough customers who preferred to deal in London.  If London is seen as weaker, or weakened, and the DB has access to those customers via the LSE as they now have, I think it very likely that those customers will think themselves better served in the stronger market, and DB will not waste time telling them that will be the case.

[AMOSS]

Why don't we vote to leave. Then all those that want to be in the EU can migrate to Turkey. Simple. ...

[AMOSS]

Also give Scotland their independence and then they will go bankrupt. Then Brussels will spend millions bailing them out.

[Harry Hornet]

Ok Max and Mitch That's trade out of the way ...In my position trying to get work for my company has been a nightmare in the last 10 years..nearly all the countries want me to have a local como any and pay in Euros..I personally loose 25% with exchange rate..then get taxed locally then try to get the money back to UK. .It doesn't make sense to even try. Now let's tackle. .immigration. .then sovereignty. .then border control.. Your augments are worth listening to

[MAXR]

Ok Max and Mitch That's trade out of the way ...In my position trying to get work for my company has been a nightmare in the last 10 years..nearly all the countries want me to have a local como any and pay in Euros..I personally loose 25% with exchange rate..then get taxed locally then try to get the money back to UK. .It doesn't make sense to even try. Now let's tackle. .immigration. .then sovereignty. .then border control.. Your augments are worth listening to

 

The vote should be for what's right for the country as a whole & not just you & your circumstances. 

 

I could happily talk about the other items you listed, but I'm of out now...

[Madmitch]

We agree then, that the trade issue will not get any better if we leave.  They will still want Euros, local tax and there will be a cost to money changing.

 

Immigration, as has been pointed out, most immigrants work hard at the jobs the English don't want to do, or in the NHS, stats show they are net contributors.

 

Border control, with just 3 cutters to patrol our entire coastline we are our own worst enemies.  Whatever happens in the vote will not stop rubber boats crossing the Channel.

 

And Sovereignty, we have the powers already but not the will, for example why only three cutters..............

 

We can lead Europe if we are inside and pushing for change, running away from the challenge is not what the British do nor will it benefit us in the long run.

[Raptor]

I saw this on another forum this evening - ask yourself another question - if the vote was to actually join the EU, which way would you vote?

[Madmitch]

If you were not in any trade bloc, or maybe something like EFTA, and you were invited to join the biggest and richest trading bloc on the planet, you would have to be certifiable to think that you would be better off on your own in the middle of the North Sea!  You might not like everything it had to offer but you would jump at the things that were of benefit and seek to change those that were not, that is how it works! 

[Tony H]

If we go EEA there won't be any economic disruption.

[jules_s]

Seems Dyson has said his bit then

 

Not quite sure I agree with it though

[Harry Hornet]

Ok Max and Mitch That's trade out of the way ...In my position trying to get work for my company has been a nightmare in the last 10 years..nearly all the countries want me to have a local como any and pay in Euros..I personally loose 25% with exchange rate..then get taxed locally then try to get the money back to UK. .It doesn't make sense to even try. Now let's tackle. .immigration. .then sovereignty. .then border control.. Your augments are worth listening to

  The vote should be for what's right for the country as a whole & not just you & your circumstances.    I could happily talk about the other items you listed, but I'm of out now...

Sorry don't agree To a certain extent man is greedy and looks after his own Will yoh supplement my company any losses. .mmm...thought you wouldn't

[MAXR]

 

 

Ok Max and Mitch That's trade out of the way ...In my position trying to get work for my company has been a nightmare in the last 10 years..nearly all the countries want me to have a local como any and pay in Euros..I personally loose 25% with exchange rate..then get taxed locally then try to get the money back to UK. .It doesn't make sense to even try. Now let's tackle. .immigration. .then sovereignty. .then border control.. Your augments are worth listening to

  The vote should be for what's right for the country as a whole & not just you & your circumstances.    I could happily talk about the other items you listed, but I'm of out now...

Sorry don't agree To a certain extent man is greedy and looks after his own Will yoh supplement my company any losses. .mmm...thought you wouldn't

 

 

HH, 

I'm not trying to convince anyone on this forum to vote in a certain way. However, as I have already pointed out, if the country as a whole suffers with a lower £, virtually everything you buy will becomes more expensive. If industrial growth slows down or is reduced, then there is less money in the pot for the government to dish out & spend. We will then have to borrow more. Stealth taxes may have to rise for them to recover additional money. Jobs may go abroad as global companies reduce investments here. It may drag us into another recession, it may not. But, what is clear is that it WILL be worse in the short term at least 10-15 years (That's what the great majority of learned folks say).

 

Also, the Conservatives, Labour, Liberals, Scottish government, The independent Bank of England, previous prime ministers to name but a few,  ALL want us to vote IN......Why???? Are they all wrong? ...NO

 

We cannot take on the world on our own. In the future tackling threats, emerging markets will require global strategies from a strong team player. We need to be at the head of the table. We need unfettered access to markets. The best way to do that is with a loud common voice.

 

 

Yes, go ahead & vote for what's best for you, that's your prerogative. But I hope in doing so, you don't shoot yourself in the foot!

 

P.S. I used to pay 40% corporation tax & then 20% directors tax on profits from my old companies. 

[AMOSS]

This is a massive opportunity for our jumped up politicians, economists and so called top businessmen to step up to the plate and start earning the massive wages that they pay themselves. The common market was working very well but now there are far too many countries in the EU. It's now the time to step back and start up on our own. The future is bleak if we stay in that's for sure. If we opt out then others will follow. Italy, France Greece will almost certainly follow.

[christhegasman]

This is a massive opportunity for our jumped up politicians, economists and so called top businessmen to step up to the plate and start earning the massive wages that they pay themselves. The common market was working very well but now there are far too many countries in the EU. It's now the time to step back and start up on our own. The future is bleak if we stay in that's for sure. If we opt out then others will follow. Italy, France Greece will almost certainly follow.

Agreed we voted for the common market not the Eu there is a massive difference and things have changed within the club too much we need to get back to basics and have an equal trading group On another point when we joined we were told we would all be the same across Europe so why did we end up with more tax on everything than most others ?

Edited by christhegasman, 11 June 2016 - 07:34 AM.