1815 replies to this topic

[Tony VXR 56]

Not sure "control" will be achieved if we vote to leave. Borders The Leave campaign like to suggest that we would get control of our borders by leaving the EU. The only problem with this is... we already have control of our borders. This government have cut border staff which may have contributed to recent higher net migration, but if youve been abroad recently then you know full well you need a passport, and to pass through border controls, in order to get in to the country. We have an opt-out of the Schengen agreement (along with Ireland). Leaving the EU would probably not change this situation, and may in fact require us to join Schengen - losing the control we do have of our borders - as part of any trade agreement. This is what Norway has to do, and Switzerland. If we did have any border control though, itd be in the UK - our membership of the EU currently means we have an agreement with France to station border controls over there, hence the migrant camp being in Calais and not Kent. If we left the EU, this would likely move to Kent. Regardless of any of this anyway, people seem to forget that we have a land border with the EU in Ireland, which would be very difficult to control or police, save for putting up a wall between Ireland and Northern Ireland - and Im sure you can guess how well thatll go down. You simply wont be able to stop determined EU citizens (and its just the EU citizens we are talking about here) crossing that border into the UK. Leaving You must remember that the question in ALL of this discussion is not about whether the EU is good or bad, but whether we are better off out (especially under this Tory government who are determined to take away your rights, damage the climate and economy and promote the UK as a tax haven) or in, whatever its ills. The Leave campaign has not come up with a single plan for leaving, not a single suggestion as to what a post-Brexit situation would look like, let alone anything even credible. Its a huge mystery and unknown, but the available evidence strongly suggests that it wouldnt be a good one. We know what being in the EU is like - weve had 43 years of it - so suggestions from the Leave camp that remaining would also be an unknown is nothing more than an attempt to legitimise their own cluelessness in my opinion.

[AMOSS]

This is a massive opportunity for our jumped up politicians, economists and so called top businessmen to step up to the plate and start earning the massive wages that they pay themselves. The common market was working very well but now there are far too many countries in the EU. It's now the time to step back and start up on our own. The future is bleak if we stay in that's for sure. If we opt out then others will follow. Italy, France Greece will almost certainly follow.

Agreed we voted for the common market not the Eu there is a massive difference and things have changed within the club too much we need to get back to basics and have an equal trading group On another point when we joined we were told we would all be the same across Europe so why did we end up with more tax on everything than most others ?

Because our leaders lost their backbones. Cameron just wants us to stay in the EU so he can line him self a high salary job. That's why he's changed his mind.

Edited by AMOSS, 13 June 2016 - 09:35 PM.

[christhegasman]

Tony Re the last statement yes we have been in for 43 years and who 43 years ago would have expected the U.K. To be in the situation it is now so I guess we don't really know what the future holds either way one thing for certain is that all politicians which ever side are making it up as they go along with their own future in mind

Edited by christhegasman, 13 June 2016 - 09:34 PM.

[Madmitch]

 

 

 

Just like that if we stay in or just like that with even less money than now if we leave.   

What do you mean we ? You don't even live in the uk 😀and again how can you say with less money if we leave ? You do not know and neither does anyone else it's either stand up to your neck in sh*t waiting for it to get deeper or get out the sh*t 😀  

I don't understand why you are so obsessed with the fact that I have retired to somewhere else in the EU.  What we are supposed to be debating is what will be best for the UK.  Constantly slagging off those who live somewhere you don't approve of does nothing to raise the quality of the debate.

never said I don't approve of your choice I may decide on a similar course one day but that does not change the way I feel now, this country is in a mess and one option is to take control again and stop being ordered to toe the line by Brussels I don't want to fall out and am not slagging you off but you can't use We which Implies you are here in the uk as you are not over here you can not fully appreciate the position we find ourselves in or understand it. I am actually old enough to not really give a toss except my state pension age keeps going up which I am sure they would never get away with in France for example. I am in the out camp for the sake of my kids and their kids with a hope that if we take control we might still have houses doctors ,schools nhs etc ,everything I have paid to support for over 40 years

 

I use 'we' because I am born and bred English, lived and worked in the UK for 57 years, still pay UK tax, may or may not one day return, still come back regularly and will be there in a fortnight for a family wedding, and so on, I am English through and through and proud of it!  I fully accept that I am now less familiar with the state of the nation than you but I return often enough, and have loads of rellies there who tell me what is going, to have a pretty good idea of how it is now, thankfully I don't have to sit on the M25 anymore nor wait ages for medical care.  Regarding pension age increases in France, exactly the same thing is going on here, badly needed as there are numerous categories of trades who have different retirement ages and different pensions, librarians, fishermen, train drivers, nurses, the list is endless and the system shambolic.  They are protesting that but they are more preoccupied with the proposals to raise the working week from 36 hours minimum.........  I have four children and five grandchildren, most in the UK, and I am as concerned as you for their future, I'm 72 now and I doubt the outcome of the referendum will make much difference to me but I just can't see all this 'taking control stuff' as anything other than a romantic pipe dream.  Nothing will change for an out vote except that trade will tighten and the country will be poorer and more isolated.  New trade deals will take decades to finalise and they will be nowhere as favourable as they are now.  And the little rubber boats will keep coming in the night with their sad cargoes of destitute refugees.   

[Crazyfrog (Fab)]

After so many years in uk and having participated in the pot I say out ...but I am sure the politicians will find the way to get news laws even if the English people decide to depart ‼️‼️‼️

[Tony H]

Remain totally losing their chill now. It's come a long way from the cigar puffing after the Obama intervention. The turnout is going to be sky high.

[Raptor]

I'm really getting the vibe that we will be voting to leave (which is good IMHO).  This is of course uncharted territory and after a couple of years of uncertainty I really do believe we can sort ourselves out properly and be in control of our future.

 

I spoke to my Dad earlier who voted for being in the EEC in the 1975 referendum.  He's in no doubt that this has not been a good decision for the UK over the last decade and is voting to leave. He reckons most he's spoken with (same era) about this are also in agreement.

Edited by Raptor, 13 June 2016 - 10:41 PM.

[LY_Scott]

Seems we're having a referendum on immigration rather than EU membership

[AMOSS]

I wonder how long it will be till there are investigtions into corruption and bribery just like in FIFA. Why are they waiting for the outcome of our referendum before announcing the reforms that they are going to make. It's obviously not going to be cheap for the UK.

[LY_Scott]

Like an expenses scandal? Like a 2nd chamber with what will soon be 1000 unelected members (mostly party donors, bishops and some chaps who's ancestor won a battle over some land 500 years ago)claiming £300 a day for turning up and sleeping then also claiming to decorate their houses? Flying in from New York to vote against help for the poor. Aye....all the establishment problems are the EU's fault.....

[Haston]

We're voting out I believe we can make it alone.

 

Tired of the scare mongering as seen in the Scottish referendum with the media reporting only what they believe and not an unbiased view 

[MAXR]

We're voting out I believe we can make it alone.

 

Tired of the scare mongering as seen in the Scottish referendum with the media reporting only what they believe and not an unbiased view 

 

 

Dear Dear Me....It seems like the blind leading the blind.... 

 

 

Apparently, the Brexit Bunch's new marketing campaign posters....   

 

 

[Haston]

Not really, I didn't even vote in the Scottish ref as it wouldn't affect me as I live and work in England and watched the campaign.....

 

I am just voting from what information has been provided by both sides......

 

Just giving my 2p

 

ps. I would love a job in marketing

[christhegasman]

So I joined a gym club a few years back on a 10 year deal decent place nice machines and service but now all the owners have moved overseas and they have put the price up to £100 a week but not to worry I get a £20 voucher to spend in the club each week providing I buy something supplied by another member and they will also sell anything I produce ? Not much use as I now produce very little So one day I was talking to some other members about costs and the first guy said he only paid £50 a month and got £40 back second guy said he paid in £40 and got a voucher for £40 that's a good deal I thought but this last guy reckoned he got free membership and also got a £40 voucher so him and hundreds of his mates joined so now there is no room and half the equipment needs maintenance 😡 So I had a letter today telling me if I wanted to opt out if my membership I could 😀 Hmm not sure 😀 Simplistic tongue in cheek I know but that's how i feel about EU membership Probably all irrelevant anyway as by the time figures have been doctored and votes incorrectly counted we will stay in Cameron will fcuk off to his job in the eu and we will be no different except we will be rid of that slimy lying Cnut 😡

Edited by christhegasman, 14 June 2016 - 10:31 AM.

[techieboy]

slimy lying Cnut 😡

 

 

Yup, because Brexit hasn't got way more than it's fare share of them too. We could start a list to see which side has the biggest wnakers in.

 

Cameron won't get a job at the EU. He's as sceptical of the EU as the rest of us and there's no way Juncker and Co will ever roll out the red carpet for him, given the fact he's given us the chance to vote on membership. The EU power brokers probably hate him more than you seem to.

 

Thankfully, given the Sun has come out in favour of Brexit (well done boys, you waited for as long as possible to test which way the wind was blowing in case you made a bad call), most of it's readership are currently getting pissed and fighting in France and therefore wont be voting. Still the Murdoch's obviously see a profit (or more likely, more influence) to be made in Brexit.

 

Still 100% undecided. 

[slindborg]

 we will be no different except we will be rid of that slimy lying Cnut 😡 to be replaced with another slimy lying cnut...regardless of their colours/flavour etc

 

EFA

[Tony H]

Brexit to EEA.

 

Sensible, safe, practical.

 

 

 

 

 

[christhegasman]

 we will be no different except we will be rid of that slimy lying Cnut 😡 to be replaced with another slimy lying cnut...regardless of their colours/flavour etc

  EFA

👍🏻

[slindborg]

IS that what the in/out vote is for to "drop" back to EEA or ALL out?

 

 

[christhegasman]

slimy lying Cnut 😡

    Yup, because Brexit hasn't got way more than it's fare share of them too. We could start a list to see which side has the biggest wnakers in.   Cameron won't get a job at the EU. He's as sceptical of the EU as the rest of us and there's no way Juncker and Co will ever roll out the red carpet for him, given the fact he's given us the chance to vote on membership. The EU power brokers probably hate him more than you seem to.   Thankfully, given the Sun has come out in favour of Brexit (well done boys, you waited for as long as possible to test which way the wind was blowing in case you made a bad call), most of it's readership are currently getting pissed and fighting in France and therefore wont be voting. Still the Murdoch's obviously see a profit (or more likely, more influence) to be made in Brexit.   Still 100% undecided. 

Just like any other election really all parties promise what they can to get the vote then do none of it and blame someone else I guess