1815 replies to this topic

[christhegasman]

 

    . I really like the idea of open borders, and end to nationalism, the ability to travel and work in other countries without big barriers.    

  this only works if all the countries are equal...   same wages same health care same crime same police same lack of racism  

  You will never get that - but be honest, we're a lot closer to that now than 30/40 years ago aren't we? In any case - America is a big single market, they have massive differences in all of those things, but seem to manage.   Anyway, intra-EU migration hasn't been the big problem people thought it might be.   What has disturbed people is people coming from outside the EU and going to the UK, and while the EU hasn't handled that at all well its route cause is the awful mess that is North Africa and the Middle East.

Exactly why do every other country not have the same benefit system but then tell us we can't remove some of the benefits we pay out which would then make us the same as every other eu country ? That would then reduce the scroungers who head through Europe to get here , why do they not stop at the first safe country ? Because we are in the eu and a soft touch but while we are in the eu we will remain a soft touch untill we sink or go bankrupt 😡

Edited by christhegasman, 15 June 2016 - 03:16 PM.

[Andrew aka Stuwy]

 

 

 

 

. I really like the idea of open borders, and end to nationalism, the ability to travel and work in other countries without big barriers.  

 

 

this only works if all the countries are equal...

 

same wages

same health care

same crime

same police

same lack of racism

 

 

You will never get that - but be honest, we're a lot closer to that now than 30/40 years ago aren't we? In any case - America is a big single market, they have massive differences in all of those things, but seem to manage.

 

Anyway, intra-EU migration hasn't been the big problem people thought it might be.

 

What has disturbed people is people coming from outside the EU and going to the UK, and while the EU hasn't handled that at all well its route cause is the awful mess that is North Africa and the Middle East.

 

 

America is a bad example on your part as for the most part they have mostly those all in a row. Not massive differences.

 

The point I was making is everyone has to want the same thing and it will never happen, religion, culture and societies are completely different with different ideas on how things run/work and different ideas on how to get there.

 

To be frank, and I like being frank (and sue on the weekend) I am amazed it has lasted this long. 

[LY_Scott]

Not sure what you do again chap but do you really think somebody in your position in Berlin or Amsterdam wants vastly different things? What are those things?

 

We all want the same thing. Security, a job, a roof over our heads and food on the table then all other things are a bonus.

 

Balancing out the economy over Europe is the key to it's success and so the exposed failure of those in the southern countries shown in 2008. Poverty is the root of unrest, crime and migration.

 

The only was to solve those issues is to get onboard with them and make it work for all of us. Greed is the cause of its failure.

[rob999]

I want dignitas after all of this.

[Madmitch]

 

 

 

    . I really like the idea of open borders, and end to nationalism, the ability to travel and work in other countries without big barriers.    

  this only works if all the countries are equal...   same wages same health care same crime same police same lack of racism  

  You will never get that - but be honest, we're a lot closer to that now than 30/40 years ago aren't we? In any case - America is a big single market, they have massive differences in all of those things, but seem to manage.   Anyway, intra-EU migration hasn't been the big problem people thought it might be.   What has disturbed people is people coming from outside the EU and going to the UK, and while the EU hasn't handled that at all well its route cause is the awful mess that is North Africa and the Middle East.

Exactly why do every other country not have the same benefit system but then tell us we can't remove some of the benefits we pay out which would then make us the same as every other eu country ? That would then reduce the scroungers who head through Europe to get here , why do they not stop at the first safe country ? Because we are in the eu and a soft touch but while we are in the eu we will remain a soft touch untill we sink or go bankrupt 😡

 

They don't stop here because without French paperwork they get nothing, so they move on to where paperwork, id and all the other stuff isn't needed.  If we required UK identity cards be carried we would reduce the numbers at a stroke.  It has been proposed but Liberty and the like always object.

[KurtVerbose]

 

 

 

 

 

. I really like the idea of open borders, and end to nationalism, the ability to travel and work in other countries without big barriers.  

 

 

this only works if all the countries are equal...

 

same wages

same health care

same crime

same police

same lack of racism

 

 

You will never get that - but be honest, we're a lot closer to that now than 30/40 years ago aren't we? In any case - America is a big single market, they have massive differences in all of those things, but seem to manage.

 

Anyway, intra-EU migration hasn't been the big problem people thought it might be.

 

What has disturbed people is people coming from outside the EU and going to the UK, and while the EU hasn't handled that at all well its route cause is the awful mess that is North Africa and the Middle East.

 

 

America is a bad example on your part as for the most part they have mostly those all in a row. Not massive differences.

 

The point I was making is everyone has to want the same thing and it will never happen, religion, culture and societies are completely different with different ideas on how things run/work and different ideas on how to get there.

 

To be frank, and I like being frank (and sue on the weekend) I am amazed it has lasted this long. 

 

 

I don't think America is a bad example at all. Land of contrasts and all that.

 

Anyway, I moved to Switzerland and settled here. I fit in. I know Swiss who've moved to the UK and settled in. I don't see big differences, and I'm glad it's possible. I remember Enoch Powell sounding off that we can't mix, we're too different, we won't integrate and there'll be rivers of blood. The reality has been quite different.

 

I'm not comparing you to Enoch, but I'm sure you get my point.

 

I want dignitas after all of this.

 

For yourself, or for some unwelcome but loaded relative?

[christhegasman]

 

 

 

    . I really like the idea of open borders, and end to nationalism, the ability to travel and work in other countries without big barriers.    

  this only works if all the countries are equal...   same wages same health care same crime same police same lack of racism  

  You will never get that - but be honest, we're a lot closer to that now than 30/40 years ago aren't we? In any case - America is a big single market, they have massive differences in all of those things, but seem to manage.   Anyway, intra-EU migration hasn't been the big problem people thought it might be.   What has disturbed people is people coming from outside the EU and going to the UK, and while the EU hasn't handled that at all well its route cause is the awful mess that is North Africa and the Middle East.

Exactly why do every other country not have the same benefit system but then tell us we can't remove some of the benefits we pay out which would then make us the same as every other eu country ? That would then reduce the scroungers who head through Europe to get here , why do they not stop at the first safe country ? Because we are in the eu and a soft touch but while we are in the eu we will remain a soft touch untill we sink or go bankrupt 😡  

They don't stop here because without French paperwork they get nothing, so they move on to where paperwork, id and all the other stuff isn't needed.  If we required UK identity cards be carried we would reduce the numbers at a stroke.  It has been proposed but Liberty and the like always object.

Can't disagree with that ,I thought it was some eu human rights act law that we foolishly followed when no one else does which stated it was against the human rights of a scumbag to have to prove Id before they were allowed anything

[Madmitch]

Not a bit of it.  To be in the healthcare/social security system here you have to make a full declaration to the tax authorities and jump through a million hoops.  The immigrants passing through have neither the time nor usually the resources to show that they will not be a burden etc etc so they don't get the card and that means they get nothing, and I do mean absolutely nothing.  The rest of us get exactly the same as the French, they too have to jump through a million hoops but they do this quite happily as they know only this system and they know it works.  I don't know if this is contrary to some EU ruling but I have never heard any suggestion that it might be so I assume it is legal.  We are no longer required to carry id cards, although they are still available, but everybody carries their 'Carte Vitale' health card and proof of identity is ALWAYS required for anything important, along with proof of residence and often more.  There is nothing stopping a system of this type being introduced in the UK, just lack of political will, lack of money perhaps, and the idiot, politically correct objectors like Liberty.

Edited by Madmitch, 15 June 2016 - 06:52 PM.

[christhegasman]

Not a bit of it.  To be in the healthcare/social security system here you have to make a full declaration to the tax authorities and jump through a million hoops.  The immigrants passing through have neither the time nor usually the resources to show that they will not be a burden etc etc so they don't get the card and that means they get nothing, and I do mean absolutely nothing.  The rest of us get exactly the same as the French, they too have to jump through a million hoops but they do this quite happily as they know only this system and they know it works.  I don't know if this is contrary to some EU ruling but I have never heard any suggestion that it might be so I assume it is legal.  We are no longer required to carry id cards, although they are still available, but everybody carries their 'Carte Vitale' health card and proof of identity is ALWAYS required for anything important, along with proof of residence and often more.  There is nothing stopping a system of this type being introduced in the UK, just lack of political will, lack of money perhaps, and the idiot, politically correct objectors like Liberty.

Like it and if we worked like that it would have solved a few I things now seen as part of the out issue but I think I remember some of the scum shouting human rights and this was backed up by Brussels and our chinless leaders backed down I believe this was another example of us following the eu human rights laws that no one else bothers with

Edited by christhegasman, 15 June 2016 - 07:15 PM.

[LY_Scott]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...ngland-36550304

 

Labour MP shot and stabbed near Leeds. Early reports are sketchy about shouts of Britain First.

 

Let's hope not eh and lets hope she pulls through.

 

A 52 year old man has been lifted for it.

[KurtVerbose]

Dreadful news.

[Andrew aka Stuwy]

stop the world, I want to get off

 

I am actually with Matt on this

 

100% undecided

 

do we want to be part of Europe or go alone.

 

 

I never said people wont get on, I play games with people spread across the world and we all get on perfectly, from the US to Russia to Germany and Poland, we have Welsh and Swiss and Danish all in the group. We play a lot of games together and visit each other in the real world.

 

People that are drawn together with a common cause or interest will get on. This forum is a perfect example. All different walks of life come together and have a great time with cars and drinks.

 

Same with my gaming friends.

 

THE point I was making was a lot of people don't get on. Don't want to get on.

[phil.d]

I heard from the LEAVE campaign yesterday that if they win it'll be at least 2020 before we actually pull out of the EU, if anyone out there has gone through a divorce where they've had to live in the same house as there partner while knowing it's all gone bad and hating each other, the whole time their having to still try and get on , it's horrible, that's what the 4 years would be like while we're negotiating our way out

[fiveoclock]

I heard from the LEAVE campaign yesterday that if they win it'll be at least 2020 before we actually pull out of the EU, if anyone out there has gone through a divorce where they've had to live in the same house as there partner while knowing it's all gone bad and hating each other, the whole time their having to still try and get on , it's horrible, that's what the 4 years would be like while we're negotiating our way out

But what about the peace and well being you experience when its finally all over. Worth it a million times over

[phil.d]

if people end up poorer over the next four years they do things like getting rid of unnecessary toys, things like 2nd cars, track day toys etc, of course the super rich won't be affected ,it's your average person who works hard and manges to afford these things, things which keep businesses like BoT busy, it's easy to say 4 years is a short price to pay , but 4 years in the financial sector is a long time, we would even probably end up having a election before that , with both parties mainly wanting to stay in who's going to want to take over, I just see a complete mess of it all, I would vote to leave if I thought it could be done sensibly and easily, but it can't , at the end of the day if leave win its going to force the ruling government to do something they don't want to do, they can't even get right the things they actually want to do. At the end of the day I personally feel what we need is a STRONG government in the EU. p.s please still service my car for me 😀

[KurtVerbose]

Jo Cox murdered - just horrible. How can anyone do such a terrible thing.

[fiveoclock]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...ngland-36550304

 

Labour MP shot and stabbed near Leeds. Early reports are sketchy about shouts of Britain First.

 

Let's hope not eh and lets hope she pulls through.

 

A 52 year old man has been lifted for it.

She has now passed away, RIP, cant imagine the pain her family is suffering

[Andrew aka Stuwy]

I can't believe this would happen in the uk

 

[LY_Scott]

Disgusting. Heard reports he was hitting her then a man ran over to intervene he drew the gun and shot her twice before she fell he then shot her again in the face and drew a knife, stabbed and kicked her.

 

Utter fcuking animal.

[fiveoclock]

I can't believe this would happen in the uk

 

Not sure why, nutters have been bombing and killing in the UK for 50 years