1815 replies to this topic

[Madmitch]

I'm not Facebook'd so can't watch the video... How about this scenario: GB leave & prosper. EU collapses as Germany can't carry on funding it due to 20% import duty levied by UK. But then I'm high on morphine still.

 

Go back a page and you will find a link on YouTube.

[Tony VXR 56]

Good point H... Look how well it turned out for the old soviet Union - for sure only the rich benfited. There is a reason why most (not all) business leaders and politicians back remain. Mr Dyson, transferred production to where it was cheaper - really cared about UK talent or workers! mr JCB hmmm... Anyway, you are free to vote as you please that's the advantage of being in our country and why so many ex soviet bloc countries want to be in the EU.

[Madmitch]

 

Do you think the collapse of the EU would be a good thing?

 

No I dont.want to see the EU collapse..but I do want change.. when it was the Common Market which I voted for in 1975 it was good thing.

 

..it is now a Union...that doesnt just govern trade..

 

..Serious question back..was the Soviet Union a good thing..with all the Slovakia's, etc in it.....why did we want it broken up....why did the little countries want their sovereignty back...please do tell..

 

 

Most of those 'little countries' had lost their sovereignty when they were invaded by Russia during and after WWll.  Understandably they wished to throw out the invaders and go back to being what they had been before, independent countries.  Was the USSR a good thing, most would say no because it was controlled by force and fear, secret police, the Berlin Wall and Gulags, and the vast majority lived in poverty while the money was spent on arms to be used against it's own people and perhaps to expand the USSR.  One cause of the collapse of the USSR was that they spent too much on weapons.  The break up of the USSR weakened it both militarily and economically and meant we needed to spend less on weapons to counter the threat from the USSR.  Modern day Russia under Putin seems to be trying to return to what it sees as it's past glory and greatness and it will probably view fragmentation of the EU after an out vote as an opportunity to further those aims.  They are probing all the time now with ships in the North Sea and aircraft over it, likewise the Channel, the Baltic Sea etc, just another reason to stay in.    

[Madmitch]

I see that Nissan is to take the Leave campaign to the High Court for using and misusing their name and logo, as they did with Airbus, GE and others.

Edited by Madmitch, 20 June 2016 - 04:54 PM.

[Tony VXR 56]

I don't know why the leave campaign has to twist facts and deliberately mislead - most of their supporters don't seem to care too much about facts anyway. They'd probably gain more support if they offered them all a lottery ticket 😏 Other than private companies I haven't seen any major corporates support the exit campaign - some have stayed neutral but many have openly expressed their wish that we stay in the EU.

[the outsider]

So anyone any ideas on what our future flag will look like, im pretty sure the union jack and st george will no doubt offend all the new people coming in, so im sure the eu will make us change it while were taking it up the arse from everyone else, great outlook eh,

[phippsy]

The twisting of facts and scaremongering was started by the remain campaign. I think the leave camp had little choice but to join in which is a shame.

[the outsider]

Anyone having doubts, watch benefits Britain on c5+1 on tonight, if it does nt make your blood boil, I'll be very surprised, Britain paying child benefit and other tax credits to people who dont even work here, fcuking scumbags are not even shy about it

[techieboy]

Yes, it's stupid but that's our benefit system, not the EU's, FFS. Cameron effectively negotiated an end to it back in February. But, frankly, who gives a sh!t about £30m of Child Benefit a year being sent overseas in the grand scheme of all things called the benefits system. 

[slindborg]

Based on the leaflet which pissed Nissan off, if I were in any doubt then it's sealed my decision... Thankfully it's only served to reinforce my choice of and inny

[MAXR]

I truly hope that people will think very carefully before voting OUT. There is far, far more uncertainty about our country's future (England, Scotland, Wales & N Ireland) by voting out. We all know where we are now & what we can achieve within the EU. It isn't ideal, but we gain more from being part of it. It's the WORLD'S BIGGEST CLUB & we are the second biggest player in that market after Germany. Why would we gamble on SO many unknowns if we vote to leave? We may see 10+ years of setting up trade deals, less money in our pockets, market turmoil & slow market growth. Why would ANYONE take a chance?

 

As I have previously stated, the UK has more foreign investment than ANY other country in the world....Why??? Is it because we used to be great once upon a time? NO, as nobody gives a sh*t! ...Our country offers investors a huge talent pool & expertise, friendly tax regimes, we also speak English. The fact is that global investors automatically get access to the world's biggest single market is a huge factor. If the EU single market collapses you may want to hide your money under your mattress for many years.

 

Get real people, open your eyes, don't simplify all of the concerns relating to exiting the EU or say it'll be alright after a while. Try & understand the complexities of isolating ourselves from the world, we will also be weaker. This is not BET365.com, It's likely to change your world & that of your family for the worse for some years to come.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Harry Hornet]

I truly hope that people will think very carefully before voting OUT. There is far, far more uncertainty about our country's future (England, Scotland, Wales & N Ireland) by voting out. We all know where we are now & what we can achieve within the EU. It isn't ideal, but we gain more from being part of it. It's the WORLD'S BIGGEST CLUB & we are the second biggest player in that market after Germany. Why would we gamble on SO many unknowns if we vote to leave? We may see 10+ years of setting up trade deals, less money in our pockets, market turmoil & slow market growth. Why would ANYONE take a chance?

 

As I have previously stated, the UK has more foreign investment than ANY other country in the world....Why??? Is it because we used to be great once upon a time? NO, as nobody gives a sh*t! ...Our country offers investors a huge talent pool & expertise, friendly tax regimes, we also speak English. The fact is that global investors automatically get access to the world's biggest single market is a huge factor. If the EU single market collapses you may want to hide your money under your mattress for many years.

 

Get real people, open your eyes, don't simplify all of the concerns relating to exiting the EU or say it'll be alright after a while. Try & understand the complexities of isolating ourselves from the world, we will also be weaker. This is not BET365.com, It's likely to change your world & that of your family for the worse for some years to come.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Max

 

Great words and I agree with every one of them, you have argued my position spot on....if.if if the EU single market collaspes..if we went back to the single value of why we all joined ..ala the Common Market Im in big time.....but we are not, the EU is not about a single market it is much more crap than that....and none of us know what will happen it is all specualtive

 

..and I will say it again and again..boom follows bust, follows boom follows bust ..since kingdom come this has happened...Ive seen enough of these  as you have..and we are all still here..living a life of fairly good luxury...(you cant run a VX on a fiver)

 

.....they need us more than we need them...

 

oh and Ive just pinched myself...yep Im real   

[rob999]

So which way did you go then Matt?

[ianrm]

If they need us more than we need them why have we not heard more from Europe on why we should stay?

 

[Madmitch]

Remember too that manufacturers like Toyota, Honda, Nissan and countless others came to the UK to gain access to Europe.  It was easy for them to set up their factories in the UK and it will be just as easy for them to build new plants in mainland Europe.  France has 11% unemployment at the moment, give or take, and would dearly love to have those names relocate across the Channel.  The Deutche Borse has positioned itself to take over from the London Stock Exchange as the premier stock exchange in Europe, something it has long wanted to be.  EDF seems to be delaying on it's programme to build new generators at Hinckley Point and I wonder if they are just waiting to see which way the vote goes because if we leave they think we will be poorer and the demand for power will drop which makes the whole project less profitable.  Do we really want the Chinese stepping in to fund that? 

 

Forget the headline stuff like immigration for a moment and look at the mountain of smaller deals that will suffer because there will suddenly be tariffs that did not exist before or because the exchange rate will be worse than now etc etc.  In the last few weeks the exchange rate and the FT have, without fail, climbed when the polls say in and fallen when they say out, where will they actually go to if we vote out?  This is so important that the decision has to be made on the basis of facts, there is no place for emotion.  

[techieboy]

So which way did you go then Matt?

 

Remain. I remain one of the biggest Eurosceptics here but on the balance of many hundreds of hours reading, listening, researching and forming my own conclusions I decided, on balance, the very real risks outweighed the very spurious and mostly imaginary benefits of Brexit.

 

My one real fear with voting the way I did is that Cameron and more importantly Juncker and his cronies, is that they take this as some form of tacit support of what they're doing and what they'd like to do. It's most certainly NOT support for the status quo and shouldn't be taken that way. I truly hope we become a much more vocal and disruptive presence in the EU institutions and try and force through some real changes.

[WrightStuff]

[color=rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'-apple-system-font';font-size:12px;]Good video by the poster, some perfectly valid points on the likely negative impact on our EU trade arrangements if we vote to leave.[/color]

[color=rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'-apple-system-font';font-size:12px;]Why would it be any other way ? We’ve just spent decades integrating into this system of course its going to take time to unravel and make our own way.[/color]

 

If you think all the uncertainty lies in the leave option you are really not having a balanced view of the issues. There are massive dangers in a vote to remain.

The EU has quite clearly shown which direction it is going in over the last 40 years. A vote to leave is not a vote to stay put, its a vote to get dragged into a lot more of the same.

 

You are voting for more centralising of power, less accountability, more eu officials riding the tax payer subsidised gravy train, more poor countries joining that really shouldn’t who we will have to prop op, more crises and bailouts, more civil unrest, less border controls, more net migration and sod all chance of reform.

All this to stay in such a great ‘club’ that is the worlds only declining trading block and has been stagnating for the last 10 years. Trade agreements take forever because it has to be so careful not to agree to anything that disadvantages the otherwise uncompetitive companies of any single member states. 

 

I’m sorry but the price to remain is now just too high and we might not get another chance to leave.

 

This referendum will be decided on the 2 big issues of immigration and the economy.

I invite somebody, anybody, to present their case for controlling immigration if we remain because I have yet to hear a single argument for how this can be achieved.

-Anyone- ?

[Madmitch]

 

So which way did you go then Matt?

 

Remain. I remain one of the biggest Eurosceptics here but on the balance of many hundreds of hours reading, listening, researching and forming my own conclusions I decided, on balance, the very real risks outweighed the very spurious and mostly imaginary benefits of Brexit.

 

My one real fear with voting the way I did is that Cameron and more importantly Juncker and his cronies, is that they take this as some form of tacit support of what they're doing and what they'd like to do. It's most certainly NOT support for the status quo and shouldn't be taken that way. I truly hope we become a much more vocal and disruptive presence in the EU institutions and try and force through some real changes.

 

 

Absolutely agree with all that. I think it will be close enough to shake Juncker and co, we will need to really start throwing our weight about to get change.  The French know it is needed, the door is ajar, it just needs somebody to kick it in! 

[Harry Hornet]

If they need us more than we need them why have we not heard more from Europe on why we should stay?

 

 

..because the politicians across the EU are running scared that the feeling of the majority of the populations in every country (including Germany) would also vote for an Out decision...(im afraid)....they dont want to rock a boat that is already shipping in water..

 

Ive spoken to many peeps across many countries to check the feelings of the common man....I wouls say its about a 5 to 3 concensus of the EU has a shelf life unless it dramatically changes...

 

the politcians need a wake up call....the UK can start this ...governments have their finance houses and banks as their number 1 lapdogs...the public should be first..

 

large companies dont want to rock the boat as they live off their shareolders and the probable effect on shares will rock their boat.........#fact..greed follows bust follows greed..

 

Mr M youve already said ..In or Out not much will change...but change can only be created by having change..thats why unless convinced (and I am open for discussion but need convincing other than "our economy will be hit").. Im out..

[techieboy]

..because the politicians across the EU are running scared that the feeling of the majority of the populations in every country (including Germany) would also vote for an Out decision...(im afraid)....they dont want to rock a boat that is already shipping in water..   Ive spoken to many peeps across many countries to check the feelings of the common man....I wouls say its about a 5 to 3 concensus of the EU has a shelf life unless it dramatically changes...

I'd be very surprised if you can find many people on the mainland (apart some outlying Far Right Wackjobs or the Greeks) that want to leave entirely. I think that's worst case for most people that express dissatisfaction with the EU. They, like us, would much rather it was significantly reformed and that the general goodwill amongst the public towards a federal superstate has eroded.  

the politcians need a wake up call....the UK can start this ...governments have their finance houses and banks as their number 1 lapdogs...the public should be first..

  So you kill a massive chunk of the 80% of our economy that actually makes a profit in some misguided revenge attack against banks and the financial industry, where does that leave your precious NHS and all of the other things that the public purse finances? Still, I guess it'll solve the old EU immigration problem. After all, who'll want to come to a bigger basket case than Greece. Not even the Syrians want to stop there.