1815 replies to this topic

[mitm]

Can someone explain why its only our exports to Europe that causes a problem, will Germanys imports to us go unchanged...can they wait 10 years to get into our market?

[Harry Hornet]

 

..because the politicians across the EU are running scared that the feeling of the majority of the populations in every country (including Germany) would also vote for an Out decision...(im afraid)....they dont want to rock a boat that is already shipping in water..   Ive spoken to many peeps across many countries to check the feelings of the common man....I wouls say its about a 5 to 3 concensus of the EU has a shelf life unless it dramatically changes...

I'd be very surprised if you can find many people on the mainland (apart some outlying Far Right Wackjobs or the Greeks) that want to leave entirely. I think that's worst case for most people that express dissatisfaction with the EU. They, like us, would much rather it was significantly reformed and that the general goodwill amongst the public towards a federal superstate has eroded.  

the politcians need a wake up call....the UK can start this ...governments have their finance houses and banks as their number 1 lapdogs...the public should be first..

  So you kill a massive chunk of the 80% of our economy that actually makes a profit in some misguided revenge attack against banks and the financial industry, where does that leave your precious NHS and all of the other things that the public purse finances? Still, I guess it'll solve the old EU immigration problem. After all, who'll want to come to a bigger basket case than Greece. Not even the Syrians want to stop there.

 

 

Matt dont disagree with some of what you say.. you hope for change and this is a wake up call..

 

..imo only if we vote out then will they wake up...

 

..a remain will provide same old...

 

..horses for courses..Im a risk taker...your vote tells me you are not...

 

unless some one gives me proof that it will change...and the EU reverts to the old Common Market..  

[techieboy]

..horses for courses..Im a risk taker...your vote tells me you are not...

 

No. I'm most definitely a risk taker. But I've also got a highly developed sense of self-preservation and am not suicidal.

[The Batman]

It's a IN from me, but things do need to change. Leaving the eu would be a big mistake

[Captain Vimes]

I'm less clear now about how to vote than I was at the start of the campaigning. I want to be part of Europe and the single market. Happy for the aligned safety standards, regulation and no trade barriers. I want to be a Brit who works closely with my neighbours in mainland Europe but I don't want Brussels to move us further towards a federal superstate or hand more control to the Brussels bureaucrats. I don't want free movement of people...whilst I welcome the idea in principle, there is such a disparity in living standards, costs and culture that it doesn't work at present. If people chose to come to Britain then it takes years for the infrastructure to catch up and it's painful in the meantime. When they leave as other countries become more attractive, well be left with empty ghost towns. Neither of these appeal to me.. I don't like either choice. I wish Germany and France had listened to Cameron and their people and opened the treaties at the point of renegotiation..

[slindborg]

If the people thing was so apparent, then why aren't Spain, Italy, Portugal, and all of Eastern Europe EMPTY and then here and Germany rammed to the rafters? I know many will say we are but in reality we aren't.

[Mangham54]

I have been so unsure of which way to fall. I know I don't want a stronger buy into Europe and secretly want an 'out' or 'in' result, but by a small enough margin to give neither side the authority to do whatever the fcuking well choose. A single market is a positive thing, but a single European government is a bad bad idea. Each nation has differing views on economics, employment legislation etc. I would not want the French dictat.

[Madmitch]

Can someone explain why its only our exports to Europe that causes a problem, will Germanys imports to us go unchanged...can they wait 10 years to get into our market?

 

At the moment goods from any country outside the EU face import duties on arrival, because we are bigger than any other trading bloc we can negotiate advantageous terms for EU members.  If we leave then our exports to the EU will be subject to those same duties.  We, on the other hand, will need to set up a complete new set of tariffs, for import and export, with every country on the planet.  This is necessary to prevent, for example, China dumping loads of cheap steel on us, without UK tariff barriers that problem would go from bad to impossible.  Germany's imports to us would be subject to new trade agreements with the EU which would need to be negotiated and in those negotiations we would be by far the smaller party.  It's not just our trade with the EU though, we would need to negotiate new trade treaties with every country we wish to trade with.  It is said that this is such an enormous task that we can manage no more than two new treaties a year but we will need to negotiate more than forty, according to my maths that means not ten years but twenty.

[Madmitch]

 

 

..because the politicians across the EU are running scared that the feeling of the majority of the populations in every country (including Germany) would also vote for an Out decision...(im afraid)....they dont want to rock a boat that is already shipping in water..   Ive spoken to many peeps across many countries to check the feelings of the common man....I wouls say its about a 5 to 3 concensus of the EU has a shelf life unless it dramatically changes...

I'd be very surprised if you can find many people on the mainland (apart some outlying Far Right Wackjobs or the Greeks) that want to leave entirely. I think that's worst case for most people that express dissatisfaction with the EU. They, like us, would much rather it was significantly reformed and that the general goodwill amongst the public towards a federal superstate has eroded.  

the politcians need a wake up call....the UK can start this ...governments have their finance houses and banks as their number 1 lapdogs...the public should be first..

  So you kill a massive chunk of the 80% of our economy that actually makes a profit in some misguided revenge attack against banks and the financial industry, where does that leave your precious NHS and all of the other things that the public purse finances? Still, I guess it'll solve the old EU immigration problem. After all, who'll want to come to a bigger basket case than Greece. Not even the Syrians want to stop there.

 

 

Matt dont disagree with some of what you say.. you hope for change and this is a wake up call..

 

..imo only if we vote out then will they wake up...

 

..a remain will provide same old...

 

..horses for courses..Im a risk taker...your vote tells me you are not...

 

unless some one gives me proof that it will change...and the EU reverts to the old Common Market..  

 

If you vote out and they wake up what then, you are now outside having cut off your nose to spite your face!  Nobody denies that the EU is imperfect, the best way forward is to stay in and fight for change, let's make it better!  As I said yesterday, they know change is needed, the door is ajar, we need to be the people to kick it in.  If we are as good as we think we are and our economy is growing faster than any other we could soon be the most powerful nation in the most powerful trading bloc on the planet, think about that!

[jonnyboy]

Looks like the currency markets are edging towards in with a bit of strength kicking into the £

[Harry Hornet]

 

 

 

..because the politicians across the EU are running scared that the feeling of the majority of the populations in every country (including Germany) would also vote for an Out decision...(im afraid)....they dont want to rock a boat that is already shipping in water..   Ive spoken to many peeps across many countries to check the feelings of the common man....I wouls say its about a 5 to 3 concensus of the EU has a shelf life unless it dramatically changes...

I'd be very surprised if you can find many people on the mainland (apart some outlying Far Right Wackjobs or the Greeks) that want to leave entirely. I think that's worst case for most people that express dissatisfaction with the EU. They, like us, would much rather it was significantly reformed and that the general goodwill amongst the public towards a federal superstate has eroded.  

the politcians need a wake up call....the UK can start this ...governments have their finance houses and banks as their number 1 lapdogs...the public should be first..

  So you kill a massive chunk of the 80% of our economy that actually makes a profit in some misguided revenge attack against banks and the financial industry, where does that leave your precious NHS and all of the other things that the public purse finances? Still, I guess it'll solve the old EU immigration problem. After all, who'll want to come to a bigger basket case than Greece. Not even the Syrians want to stop there.

 

 

Matt dont disagree with some of what you say.. you hope for change and this is a wake up call..

 

..imo only if we vote out then will they wake up...

 

..a remain will provide same old...

 

..horses for courses..Im a risk taker...your vote tells me you are not...

 

unless some one gives me proof that it will change...and the EU reverts to the old Common Market..  

 

If you vote out and they wake up what then, you are now outside having cut off your nose to spite your face!  Nobody denies that the EU is imperfect, the best way forward is to stay in and fight for change, let's make it better!  As I said yesterday, they know change is needed, the door is ajar, we need to be the people to kick it in.  If we are as good as we think we are and our economy is growing faster than any other we could soon be the most powerful nation in the most powerful trading bloc on the planet, think about that!

 

 

inside we wil part of the flock and be one of 29 voices or how ever many when they feel its time to stop expanding.....outside we will have the opportunity to be pack leader...

 

what "if" some others choose to leave as well (Netherlands for example), we can start all over again with a true Common Market.and have our own gang...and our own sovereignty...

 

remaining ..who will do the kicking of the door down.. outing means our politicians have to wake up, litsen and start doing a job that they are paid for..

 

convince me that there is a "real" chance of change by remaining...3 days to go..

 

H  

[Madmitch]

 

 

 

 

..because the politicians across the EU are running scared that the feeling of the majority of the populations in every country (including Germany) would also vote for an Out decision...(im afraid)....they dont want to rock a boat that is already shipping in water..   Ive spoken to many peeps across many countries to check the feelings of the common man....I wouls say its about a 5 to 3 concensus of the EU has a shelf life unless it dramatically changes...

I'd be very surprised if you can find many people on the mainland (apart some outlying Far Right Wackjobs or the Greeks) that want to leave entirely. I think that's worst case for most people that express dissatisfaction with the EU. They, like us, would much rather it was significantly reformed and that the general goodwill amongst the public towards a federal superstate has eroded.  

the politcians need a wake up call....the UK can start this ...governments have their finance houses and banks as their number 1 lapdogs...the public should be first..

  So you kill a massive chunk of the 80% of our economy that actually makes a profit in some misguided revenge attack against banks and the financial industry, where does that leave your precious NHS and all of the other things that the public purse finances? Still, I guess it'll solve the old EU immigration problem. After all, who'll want to come to a bigger basket case than Greece. Not even the Syrians want to stop there.

 

 

Matt dont disagree with some of what you say.. you hope for change and this is a wake up call..

 

..imo only if we vote out then will they wake up...

 

..a remain will provide same old...

 

..horses for courses..Im a risk taker...your vote tells me you are not...

 

unless some one gives me proof that it will change...and the EU reverts to the old Common Market..  

 

If you vote out and they wake up what then, you are now outside having cut off your nose to spite your face!  Nobody denies that the EU is imperfect, the best way forward is to stay in and fight for change, let's make it better!  As I said yesterday, they know change is needed, the door is ajar, we need to be the people to kick it in.  If we are as good as we think we are and our economy is growing faster than any other we could soon be the most powerful nation in the most powerful trading bloc on the planet, think about that!

 

 

inside we wil part of the flock and be one of 29 voices or how ever many when they feel its time to stop expanding.....outside we will have the opportunity to be pack leader...

 

what "if" some others choose to leave as well (Netherlands for example), we can start all over again with a true Common Market.and have our own gang...and our own sovereignty...

 

remaining ..who will do the kicking of the door down.. outing means our politicians have to wake up, litsen and start doing a job that they are paid for..

 

convince me that there is a "real" chance of change by remaining...3 days to go..

 

H  

 

 

Inside - we can, and should, aim to be the leader, outside - what pack?  How many years will that take and at what cost?

 

What people say they will do and what they actually do is often very different.  I really can't see any of the smaller nations thinking they might be better off out.  Starting again will take decades and there is no guarantee that any other nation will follow us out.  We could end up in a pack of just one.

 

We need to be the ones doing the kicking and it is up to us, the electorate, to elect politicians who will do that.  Real politicians who are more interested in politics and commerce, less interested in politically correct dogma and empire building.

 

Real chance of change.  France is one of the biggest obstacles to change IMO but they know it is badly needed.  Sarkozy and Hollande were both elected on a mandate for reform but have only managed small changes, anything radical having been blocked by the unions.  Hollande is up for re-election soon and there are other politicians here, like Macron, who are altogether tougher and more independent, waiting in the wings.  Juncker is listening too, I emailed him recently regarding a stupid remark he made and amazingly, not only did I get an immediate reply but the next day he made another speech in which he made it very clear that he wanted the UK in the EU, correcting all the ambiguity of his previous remarks.   

[christhegasman]

 

 

 

 

..because the politicians across the EU are running scared that the feeling of the majority of the populations in every country (including Germany) would also vote for an Out decision...(im afraid)....they dont want to rock a boat that is already shipping in water..   Ive spoken to many peeps across many countries to check the feelings of the common man....I wouls say its about a 5 to 3 concensus of the EU has a shelf life unless it dramatically changes...

I'd be very surprised if you can find many people on the mainland (apart some outlying Far Right Wackjobs or the Greeks) that want to leave entirely. I think that's worst case for most people that express dissatisfaction with the EU. They, like us, would much rather it was significantly reformed and that the general goodwill amongst the public towards a federal superstate has eroded.  

the politcians need a wake up call....the UK can start this ...governments have their finance houses and banks as their number 1 lapdogs...the public should be first..

  So you kill a massive chunk of the 80% of our economy that actually makes a profit in some misguided revenge attack against banks and the financial industry, where does that leave your precious NHS and all of the other things that the public purse finances? Still, I guess it'll solve the old EU immigration problem. After all, who'll want to come to a bigger basket case than Greece. Not even the Syrians want to stop there.  

  Matt dont disagree with some of what you say.. you hope for change and this is a wake up call..   ..imo only if we vote out then will they wake up...   ..a remain will provide same old...   ..horses for courses..Im a risk taker...your vote tells me you are not...   unless some one gives me proof that it will change...and the EU reverts to the old Common Market..    

If you vote out and they wake up what then, you are now outside having cut off your nose to spite your face!  Nobody denies that the EU is imperfect, the best way forward is to stay in and fight for change, let's make it better!  As I said yesterday, they know change is needed, the door is ajar, we need to be the people to kick it in.  If we are as good as we think we are and our economy is growing faster than any other we could soon be the most powerful nation in the most powerful trading bloc on the planet, think about that!  

  inside we wil part of the flock and be one of 29 voices or how ever many when they feel its time to stop expanding.....outside we will have the opportunity to be pack leader...   what "if" some others choose to leave as well (Netherlands for example), we can start all over again with a true Common Market.and have our own gang...and our own sovereignty...   remaining ..who will do the kicking of the door down.. outing means our politicians have to wake up, litsen and start doing a job that they are paid for..   convince me that there is a "real" chance of change by remaining...3 days to go..   H    

  Inside - we can, and should, aim to be the leader, outside - what pack?  How many years will that take and at what cost?   What people say they will do and what they actually do is often very different.  I really can't see any of the smaller nations thinking they might be better off out.  Starting again will take decades and there is no guarantee that any other nation will follow us out.  We could end up in a pack of just one.   We need to be the ones doing the kicking and it is up to us, the electorate, to elect politicians who will do that.  Real politicians who are more interested in politics and commerce, less interested in politically correct dogma and empire building.   Real chance of change.  France is one of the biggest obstacles to change IMO but they know it is badly needed.  Sarkozy and Hollande were both elected on a mandate for reform but have only managed small changes, anything radical having been blocked by the unions.  Hollande is up for re-election soon and there are other politicians here, like Macron, who are altogether tougher and more independent, waiting in the wings.  Juncker is listening too, I emailed him recently regarding a stupid remark he made and amazingly, not only did I get an immediate reply but the next day he made another speech in which he made it very clear that he wanted the UK in the EU, correcting all the ambiguity of his previous remarks.   

I sort of agree with most of what you say but we have had the opportunity to be the leader and open the door for the last 40 years and done bugger all except get walked over and invaded What's going to be different if we are stupid enough to vote for another 40 years of being European dumping ground Sorry Mitch but you havnt convinced me wit any hard evidence out things can change in it will just stay exactly as its been for years Out for me still 😀 But I think you will probably get your way so the next generation can live in a tent with some easily curable illness that we can't afford to treat or that we have no one left that is educated enough to figure it out

Edited by christhegasman, 21 June 2016 - 08:09 AM.

[Madmitch]

Chris, we were late getting in and there has always been a suspicion in Europe that we weren't really committed but, this referendum will be a complete reboot, if we vote in that will demonstrate conclusively that we are comitted beyond doubt, it will silence the doubters in Europe and we will be much better placed to push and shove, much harder to just dismiss.  We must do that to ensure that we do not just carry on as before and actually, I think many here would be rather pleased if we would do for them what they cannot do for themselves.  There is enormous respect for the British and their undoubted talents, they still trust us in a way they do not trust themselves.  I think if we demonstrate a real commitment to Europe we will find support for change that we did not expect.  Do not, however, expect any Frenchman to confirm any of that, publicly they will always say they are better!  

[chris_uk]

If we swap the tables round and say we are not in the EU now and we was voting to come into the EU or remain independant.. What would the likely choice be? Are there not about 4/5 countries entering the eu, turkey being one of them.. Would we really want to dish more money out to these countries when sh*t hits their fan.. I dont know.. Im not really understanding the whole lot personally and the above is more of a question really.

[techieboy]

We don't dish out any money to countries when sh*t hits their fan, as we're not part of the Eurozone and have specifically negotiated agreements that none of our money (or other non-€ countries) contributions will not be used in bale outs.

[christhegasman]

If we swap the tables round and say we are not in the EU now and we was voting to come into the EU or remain independant.. What would the likely choice be? Are there not about 4/5 countries entering the eu, turkey being one of them.. Would we really want to dish more money out to these countries when sh*t hits their fan.. I dont know.. Im not really understanding the whole lot personally and the above is more of a question really.

I think in the current state of we were being asked to join it wouldn't happen unless we were getting offered a load of bail out cash

[christhegasman]

We don't dish out any money to countries when sh*t hits their fan, as we're not part of the Eurozone and have specifically negotiated agreements that none of our money (or other non- countries) contributions will not be used in bale outs.

But in a round about way we do as our contribution is increased to make up the shortfall in the pot made by bail outs

Edited by christhegasman, 21 June 2016 - 08:43 AM.

[techieboy]

 

We don't dish out any money to countries when sh*t hits their fan, as we're not part of the Eurozone and have specifically negotiated agreements that none of our money (or other non- countries) contributions will not be used in bale outs.

But in a round about way we do as our contribution is increased to make up the shortfall in the pot made by bail outs

 

No, our contribution has never been increased to cover bailouts via the EU. If it had, we'd be paying another €30-40bn a year. The nearest we came to contributing to the bailouts was when one of the funds we do pay into (might have been some stability fund?) was offered as security for an ECB loan to Greece. Cameron/Osborne later closed that loophole as well.

 

We have contributed funds outside the EU either directly from the UK or via the IMF.

[chris_uk]

If we swap the tables round and say we are not in the EU now and we was voting to come into the EU or remain independant.. What would the likely choice be? Are there not about 4/5 countries entering the eu, turkey being one of them.. Would we really want to dish more money out to these countries when sh*t hits their fan.. I dont know.. Im not really understanding the whole lot personally and the above is more of a question really.

I think in the current state of we were being asked to join it wouldn't happen unless we were getting offered a load of bail out cash

then why would we vote to stay into something we wouldnt want to join. This is where i get propper confused.. It makes no difference anyway.. The gov will do what they want regardless of what we vote.. Just like in the 70's referendum they made a statement saying that the voting results would be a guide and would be taken as advice. It will only be the same here.

Edited by chris_uk, 21 June 2016 - 08:57 AM.