1815 replies to this topic

[Madmitch]

Judged by GDP the EU is the wealthiest place on the planet, richer than China, the USA, Russia, Japan, whoever.  By nation the UK, in 2014, came 10th out of 188 according to the IMF, 10th out of 179 according to the World Bank and 10th out of 229 according to the CIA Worldbook, we are a rich nation by any reasonable criteria.  All developed nations borrow billions, it's called 'creative accounting', money is made round to go round and it does, being spent on all sorts of things that we take for granted and the poor farmer living off berries and goats would love to have - like roads, hospitals, schools, electricity and water on tap and so on, to say nothing of a truck etc etc.  Riches are not only measured by the cash in your pocket!!

Edited by Madmitch, 09 March 2016 - 02:01 PM.

[Harry Hornet]

Judged by GDP the EU is the wealthiest place on the planet, richer than China, the USA, Russia, Japan, whoever.  By nation the UK, in 2014, came 10th out of 188 according to the IMF, 10th out of 179 according to the World Bank and 10th out of 229 according to the CIA Worldbook, we are a rich nation by any reasonable criteria.  All developed nations borrow billions, it's called 'creative accounting', money is made round to go round and it does, being spent on all sorts of things that we take for granted and the poor farmer living off berries and goats would love to have - like roads, hospitals, schools, electricity and water on tap and so on, to say nothing of a truck etc etc.  Riches are not only measured by the cash in your pocket!!

 

Mitch..that is exactly what I am on about..who says the farmer is poor..not himself..but us...define poor....(We have a "true gypsy couple" living in the village, who has none of those things you have listed, they do not see themselves as "poor")

[Madmitch]

 

Judged by GDP the EU is the wealthiest place on the planet, richer than China, the USA, Russia, Japan, whoever.  By nation the UK, in 2014, came 10th out of 188 according to the IMF, 10th out of 179 according to the World Bank and 10th out of 229 according to the CIA Worldbook, we are a rich nation by any reasonable criteria.  All developed nations borrow billions, it's called 'creative accounting', money is made round to go round and it does, being spent on all sorts of things that we take for granted and the poor farmer living off berries and goats would love to have - like roads, hospitals, schools, electricity and water on tap and so on, to say nothing of a truck etc etc.  Riches are not only measured by the cash in your pocket!!

 

Mitch..that is exactly what I am on about..who says the farmer is poor..not himself..but us...define poor....(We have a "true gypsy couple" living in the village, who has none of those things you have listed, they do not see themselves as "poor")

 

I had a feeling you might pick me up on this Harry!  The problem is how do you quantify wealth?  Your farmer may see himself as rich because he has more goats but that is not a way most of the world would define wealth, it's too abstract, but actual dosh is quantifiable and is globally comparable.  Imperfect I agree but difficult to think of a more acceptable formula, especially when those to whom we refer to as poor would, I'm sure, welcome more money to spend!

[Harry Hornet]

 

 

Judged by GDP the EU is the wealthiest place on the planet, richer than China, the USA, Russia, Japan, whoever.  By nation the UK, in 2014, came 10th out of 188 according to the IMF, 10th out of 179 according to the World Bank and 10th out of 229 according to the CIA Worldbook, we are a rich nation by any reasonable criteria.  All developed nations borrow billions, it's called 'creative accounting', money is made round to go round and it does, being spent on all sorts of things that we take for granted and the poor farmer living off berries and goats would love to have - like roads, hospitals, schools, electricity and water on tap and so on, to say nothing of a truck etc etc.  Riches are not only measured by the cash in your pocket!!

 

Mitch..that is exactly what I am on about..who says the farmer is poor..not himself..but us...define poor....(We have a "true gypsy couple" living in the village, who has none of those things you have listed, they do not see themselves as "poor")

 

 

...... welcome more money to spend!

 

 

..Im poor..yes please, more please...I would like to SC my goat please

 

..still Out Out Out...  

[Madmitch]

Then stay IN IN IN Harry, that's where the money is!!  Feel sorry for your goat though.......................

Edited by Madmitch, 09 March 2016 - 03:34 PM.

[christhegasman]

But the money isn't in is it ? All outs cash seems to go out out out 😀 And it's thinking like the above post that inspires all the people who were happy with their lot in life to come here and end up begging on the streets or worse

Edited by christhegasman, 09 March 2016 - 03:41 PM.

[Madmitch]

Hello Chris, didn't think you would be far away!!  Remember we are in a global economic crisis, everybody is feeling poorer.  People from poorer places have always migrated to places that look richer and will continue to do that until the end of time.  The reason why it seems worse at the moment is the turmoil in the middle east.  If we can get that thorny problem put to bed then the flood of immigrants from there will at least slow to manageable proportions.  Leaving the EU will not stop people wanting to come here, if leaving makes us richer than we are now then even more people will want to come, and with less cooperation at Calais it may be even easier for them to make it into the UK.  I think we are better off inside the richest trading group on the planet where we are better placed to fight for change.  Believe me, there are plenty of intelligent French people like Macron, the Finance Minister, who are arguing for change too and it will happen because France needs change.  The unions are the problem but just as they eventually gave ground in the UK so they will here, then we can all start going forward, hopefully with us included! 

[Raptor]

 

 

And thats the thing that confuses me lots... Why would Scotland not want to be "run" by London, yet be happy to be "run" by Brussles at MASSIVE cost?

Or have I missed something?

 

because when Scotland eventually does decide to leave the UK (after equally being mis-informed about pros and cons), they can at least get a bail out/subsidies from the EU..

 

 

Ahh, the new Greece, only less near the nasty bits of the world

 

 

cough..  http://www.telegraph...ize-of-UKs.html

[techieboy]

The reason why it seems worse at the moment is the turmoil in the middle east.

I think Chris' problems probably stem from uncontrolable intra-EU migration (yes, the UK government were at best naive over the last lot of accession countries) and historic migration from further afield, rather than the clusterfcuk that is Middle East migration.  

Leaving the EU will not stop people wanting to come here, if leaving makes us richer than we are now then even more people will want to come

Of course they will. The difference would be that we could impose our own immigration controls for both EU countries, as well as non-EU immigration. Well, assuming we don't sign an EU extortion deal like the Norwegians and Swiss did for access to the EEA anyway. Personally, I'm all for migration but it needs to be controlled. Our housing/infrastructure/services can't handle huge flows of people over very short periods of time especially when they all try, for obvious reasons, to stick together in one city/area. That just leads to some form of ghettoisation and the banlieue's of Paris and prevents any kind of integration and just leads to feelings of exclusion and then extremism.  

The unions are the problem but just as they eventually gave ground in the UK so they will here, then we can all start going forward, hopefully with us included!

Well, nobody should be holding their breath, waiting for that to happen then. We're still fighting and being held ransom by unions 30 years after Thatcher. There's never been any serious appetite to take them on in France, the first sign of a trailer full of cow sh!t outside a government office, or some burning tyres on an autoroute and the government caves in to their demands. As usual. It must be nice sitting there in the south of France hypothesising and voting for things that don't affect you directly. Oh, wait a minute........

[Madmitch]

Yes, I agree with pretty much all of that!!  I think change will happen here - eventually.  Remember that both Sarkosy and Hollande were elected on a manifesto for reform, the people want it and all the time the unions are being trimmed by the law makers, employment law is the current issue of contention.  You are spot on though about the load of steaming sh*t / tanker full of milk / truck load of tomatoes although you may remember the consignment of fish they destroyed, laugh - it was all French fish!  As for sitting here in the S of F, it is raining sheets, blowing a hooly and just above freezing!!  All of these things do directly affect me but laugh again as our vote will be taken off us in October so after that we will be totally adrift!!  What am I waiting for by the way? 

[techieboy]

What am I waiting for by the way?

That was a reference to your ability to vote having been taken away.

[Madmitch]

Sorry, I was a bit slow there!  All the above goes to show how complicated a problem this is though, so many facets, so many conflicting interests.  I am old enough to know that what I think and say will change nothing at all.  The most important thing is that we can all have a lively exchange and stay on good terms.  People and friends are the most precious thing in life!   

[Harry Hornet]

 I am old enough to know that what I think and say will change nothing at all.  The most important thing is that we can all have a lively exchange and stay on good terms.  People and friends are the most precious thing in life!   

 

..amazing how these plastic shitboxes forge acquaintances..

 

Me too..pick up the pension as soon as my zimmer frame is back from the menders...

 

.... In, Out, In, Out, In, out....I thought I was decisive but Im not too sure now...

[Madmitch]

I'm a good deal older than you then but so long as I can still get into my little plastic box and, more importantly, get out then all's well!  And yes, they do forge friendships amazingly but my dog works better.  We go to Cannes every year for the weekend to meet one of our kids who come over from OZ for the film fests.  I took the dog out for a walk before breakfast and was stopped three times by the most gorgeous, long legged starlets who wanted to make a fuss of him, unfortunately they only wanted to fuss the dog.............

[Harry Hornet]

I'm a good deal older than you then but so long as I can still get into my little plastic box and, more importantly, get out then all's well!  And yes, they do forge friendships amazingly but my dog works better.  We go to Cannes every year for the weekend to meet one of our kids who come over from OZ for the film fests.  I took the dog out for a walk before breakfast and was stopped three times by the most gorgeous, long legged starlets who wanted to make a fuss of him, unfortunately they only wanted to fuss the dog.............

 

..just get a wet and cold nose, and a long tail....and lick your own b...ls..you'd get all the attention then..

 

..any way "The Sun " and Her Majesty have stated we should be OUT Out Out...so thats it..done deal...  

[Madmitch]

Nose drips anyway.

Aahhh memories - but can't get there any more.

Or is it just a fairy story - speak up Michael Gove!

[Andrew aka Stuwy]

Just reform into the British Empire and we should take over the Europe and run it properly.

[slindborg]

Just reform into the British Empire and we should take over the Europe and run it properly.

 

We should go back to the peak of the empire!

make the map pink (and fabulous) again

[techieboy]

Well, the £9m "leaflet" has landed here. As expected, it's of no help at all for the decision making process.

[smiley]

Nevermind.

 

Edited by smiley, 11 April 2016 - 02:51 PM.