1815 replies to this topic

[Dan r]

He's definitely not doing himself any favours through this is he, guys a discrace clearly just trying to get an election out of it.


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[Rosssco]

bump.

 

Here we are then:

 

Does the government go for it?

 

 

Appears so.. Doubt the commons will though..

 

Does the PM last beyond Monday?

 

 

I think so, because who is the alternative?!

 

 

Whats the point in it all?

 

Not sure - sovereignty and democracy apparently (I thought you'd understand that one )

 

I think those on the Brexit side are now becoming over-ambitious and somewhat greedy - if you'd slapped what is on the table now in front of those who voted Brexit before the ref as an option, I'm pretty sure the majority would have taken it.

 

Its highly compromised (and very unclear / vague in numerous areas), but injecting some realism into things, what really are the alternatives..? Most people out with political circles (and no doubt many in) just want things done without huge economic impacts..

[ianrm]

I don't do politics but, it is a complete and utter mess.

 

I voted remain because nobody could tell me what leaving the European Union would actually mean, it was all hearsay.

 

I still find it hard to understand how people could vote for something that they didn't know what it would entail. To me it would be like voting for an "X Factor" contestant without hearing them sing.

 

Over two years have passed since the vote and still we don't know what it will mean for us

[jonnyboy]

Paul CP nailed it - Our elected representatives have more interest in political point scoring and a scramble for the keys for number 10 and they are willing to hang us proletarians out to dry to get there. 

 

The leave vote was fecking moronic it was the biggest act of mass stupidity we have ever seen in this country. My prediction was that the EU would make an example of us and make life really hard much much to my surprise the EU seem to have been pretty reasonable and all our troubles are self inflicted. The biggest star to rise from all of this utter carbunkle...Mrs May. You may have guessed I'm not a Conservative voter in fact I have a theory that Conservatism is punishment for misdeeds in a previous life but this woman has out up with 2 years of backbiting backstabbing plotting and more from her own party and seems to be the one single person with her head down doing her best in her position and I think she really does have the peoples best interests at heart. She is a genuine hero in my book and when this shite is all over deserves a huge round of applause. 

 

The funniest thing about all the current troubles is that the whole thing is a load of baloney anyway. They are arguing over the "backstop" which will never happen anyway. All that is at stake at the moment is the outline of a deal and agreeing a transitional period ahead of trade negotiations. This is the easy bit! Leaving with no deal is utterly pointless we need to settle on this deal it's not important at all none of it. The trade deal is all we need to sort out and that can't even start yet. 

[C8RKH]

I used to be a Labour voter, but New Labour and their disastrous policies put paid to that. Amazes me how with all this talk of austerity people forget the simple "there's nothing left in the cupboard" note that Labour left after they were finally ousted from Government after what, two major wars and 12 years of entitlement.

 

Nothing short of a full frontal lobotomy would get me voting for that muppet Corbyn. That man couldn't lead a horse to water even with the puppet-masters arm (John MacDonald) wedged right up his arse. If we ever do get a Labour party, with leadership and policies that truly will positively impact the traditional Labour supporters, then I might vote for them again. But don't be deluded enough to think that is what THIS current Labour Party and the Momentum supporters is all about.  They will have emptied not just the cupbard, but the whole, kitchen, the house, garden and the housing estate bare and empty in a single disastrous 5 year term. But of course, then we'll get the usual bullshit about how it's all the Tories fault again and their mates in the City etc.  Again, how people forget it was Labour who brought in PFI. It was Labour who reduced the governance and fiscal oversight of the FS sector. This current Labour has nothing much to do with working class Brits. It is stuffed to the gunnels with blue blood, aristocratic, lefty Leninists.  Nothing at all to do with the Labour Party of my youth etc. The biggest growth in Labour's membership is from that segment which is younger, high status city dwellers with well paid jobs. They are losing members and support from the low paid, those struggling to make ends meet, the older generation and rural dwellers.  That's all thanks to Corbyn and shows how far Labour has shifted from it's grass roots.  So contrast that, with the traditional view of the Tories and christ on a bike, what's the bloody difference really between the two parties, with the exception that Corbyn is just so not a Statesman. Even disastrous May has better personal ratings than Corbyn after the shambles she has created!

 

One of the things that I find incredible in the UK is that so many people, who are obviously intelligent, still blindly vote red or blue based on their own, their parents and their mates prejudices and views. Look at the policies. Look at the swings. Make your mind up based on the facts presented in each manifesto. Blindly voting one way because you were told to once and always have is just bonkers. Mass stupidity in fact!

 

I would not say Brexit was the biggest act of mass stupidity we have ever seen. My god, there are loads to consider before Brexit. And indeed, for every stupid Brexiteer I am sure we can find an equally stupid Remainer. For every Brexit lie we can find a Remain lie, and so on. What I do find incredibly stupid is the fact that people do not seem to be able to accept a democratic vote result, in a democratic country, as being binding and will move heaven and earth to do anything they possibly can to stop it.

 

Indeed, in my my mind, one of the dumbest and most stupid things we have done in this country is to put too much effort into trying to over turn the democratic vote. Too much effort by politicians and others wanting to play the "celebrity" and pander to their own vanities, as opposed to the will of the people. If one twentieth of the effort from these stupid people had been put into working, nae, collaborating, to ensure the best outcome for the British people from this mess then we would not be in the mess we are in now.  Now, that is a perfect example of mass stupidity on the scale, or higher, of the Brexit vote itself.  One country against 27, and we spend 90% of the effort fighting, bitching, moaning, positioning amongst ourselves. How clever is that then? How is that going to produce the best deal or the best outcome? Plenty of people should be hanging their heads in shame. Plenty should be publicly flogged, on both sides! Several should be hung!

 

[C8RKH]

I used to be a Labour voter, but New Labour and their disastrous policies put paid to that. Amazes me how with all this talk of austerity people forget the simple "there's nothing left in the cupboard" note that Labour left after they were finally ousted from Government after what, two major wars and 12 years of entitlement.

 

Nothing short of a full frontal lobotomy would get me voting for that muppet Corbyn. That man couldn't lead a horse to water even with the puppet-masters arm (John MacDonald) wedged right up his arse. If we ever do get a Labour party, with leadership and policies that truly will positively impact the traditional Labour supporters, then I might vote for them again. But don't be deluded enough to think that is what THIS current Labour Party and the Momentum supporters is all about.  They will have emptied not just the cupbard, but the whole, kitchen, the house, garden and the housing estate bare and empty in a single disastrous 5 year term. But of course, then we'll get the usual bullshit about how it's all the Tories fault again and their mates in the City etc.  Again, how people forget it was Labour who brought in PFI. It was Labour who reduced the governance and fiscal oversight of the FS sector. This current Labour has nothing much to do with working class Brits. It is stuffed to the gunnels with blue blood, aristocratic, lefty Leninists.  Nothing at all to do with the Labour Party of my youth etc. The biggest growth in Labour's membership is from that segment which is younger, high status city dwellers with well paid jobs. They are losing members and support from the low paid, those struggling to make ends meet, the older generation and rural dwellers.  That's all thanks to Corbyn and shows how far Labour has shifted from it's grass roots.  So contrast that, with the traditional view of the Tories and christ on a bike, what's the bloody difference really between the two parties, with the exception that Corbyn is just so not a Statesman. Even disastrous May has better personal ratings than Corbyn after the shambles she has created!

 

One of the things that I find incredible in the UK is that so many people, who are obviously intelligent, still blindly vote red or blue based on their own, their parents and their mates prejudices and views. Look at the policies. Look at the swings. Make your mind up based on the facts presented in each manifesto. Blindly voting one way because you were told to once and always have is just bonkers. Mass stupidity in fact!

 

I would not say Brexit was the biggest act of mass stupidity we have ever seen. My god, there are loads to consider before Brexit. And indeed, for every stupid Brexiteer I am sure we can find an equally stupid Remainer. For every Brexit lie we can find a Remain lie, and so on. What I do find incredibly stupid is the fact that people do not seem to be able to accept a democratic vote result, in a democratic country, as being binding and will move heaven and earth to do anything they possibly can to stop it.

 

Indeed, in my my mind, one of the dumbest and most stupid things we have done in this country is to put too much effort into trying to over turn the democratic vote. Too much effort by politicians and others wanting to play the "celebrity" and pander to their own vanities, as opposed to the will of the people. If one twentieth of the effort from these stupid people had been put into working, nae, collaborating, to ensure the best outcome for the British people from this mess then we would not be in the mess we are in now.  Now, that is a perfect example of mass stupidity on the scale, or higher, of the Brexit vote itself.  One country against 27, and we spend 90% of the effort fighting, bitching, moaning, positioning amongst ourselves. How clever is that then? How is that going to produce the best deal or the best outcome? Plenty of people should be hanging their heads in shame. Plenty should be publicly flogged, on both sides! Several should be hung!

 

Obviously all in my humble opinion and just a as to be honest if I never heard of Brexit ever again, and we had no more politics, ever again, I'd be really, really, happy. So please do take with a pinch of salt and carry on with your beliefs and mutterings and thoughts and views safe in the knowledge that I know that I am deluded and all of the above is just made up and bears no relation to anything or anyone real.

 

[jonnyboy]

Agree 're Corbyn. I'm a Labour supporter but could not vote for him he's not leadership material and too far left.

The democratic result that's a term that gets rightly banded about. However it was only 52%. If that result was in our parliamentary elections there would be coalition resulting in representations of broader views. The brexiteers have hijacked a very very close result and tell us the public want out of Europe and all it entails. Now the vote to me means about half of us wanted out and about half in so having a brexit with close ties to the EU would be a logical and representative outcome. Why are they so keen to make such a mess of it? Reece Mogg makes my stomach churn. Who is he? Who asked him to become a spokesperson for the procedure? Noted that he's offshored his hedge fund to the EU so he will be ok. I'm sure a lot of these type of politicians have a genuine desire to see the working class suffer. The sweet sweet irony being it was those turkeys that voted for Christmas in the first place. You literally couldn't make it up.

[C8RKH]

But here we go again Jonny - the "rules" were a simple majority and a simple majority won it. So saying it was only 52% means that it was still more and that was all it took!

 

I have exactly the same issue here in Scotland with the Muppets who seem to think a once in a generation vote means a new vote every few years until they get what they want and then we go round it all again. No one wins in the end...

 

So. where do we stop this nonsense? So the turnout was only 72.2% so in effect only 37.5% of those who could vote voted for Brexit. But then that means only 34% who could vote voted to stay .So does that mean it is not democratic? It is not right? Of course not. The rules of the referendum where made clear, a simple majority and people were warned to vote or else. So actually, those who are pissed off at the result need to get really pissed off with the 27.8% of the population who could not be bothered to get of their arses and make a difference.

 

In fact, if we want to talk about the mass stupidity of Brexit then it is in the fact that almost 28% of people who could vote didn't. Now that my friend is mass stupidity! lol.

[jonnyboy]

That's a good point to be fair.

Referendums are probably the least good part of our democracy. Hindsight would have given 3 options of course. In. Out with very close ties or out with as little integration as possible.

It's all Cameron's fault. Sent us to the gallows just to claw at power another couple of years.

[C8RKH]

Agreed, not ideal. However we can count on the politicians to sort it out for us.     

[Ormes]

I'd still vote out if I had my time again. Divorces can be really messy but that's never a good reason to stay in a bad relationship. Can't understand what all of the net contributors really see in the EU. Clearly it works when you are a net beneficiary. IMO the EU was fine before inviting lots of financial basket cases to join.

[jonnyboy]

Without wishing to go totally off topic....We are coming out of the EU and have the "freedom" to renegotiate all these wonderful trade deals. Do you think we will have better terms given as a single country or a big gang of 20 odd countries? It's a total joke to think that the world is going to roll the red carpet out for us. We will end up dishing out millions of work visas to all and sundry in exchange for favourable trade terms and again another sweet irony for all the people that don't like poles coming and taking their jobs we will have the country flooded with Chinese/Indian etc on work visas half of whom probably won't return. Big issues coming on that front for sure. We will get a deal with the EU for sure that is just something that they can't not do as we take too much from them. 

 

The world is changing however. China and India are really coming up the axis of power and influence in the world is shifting wholesale to that region for sure. Surely we have to be better off in a bigger organisation than on our own. We trade on past glories but the reality is we are a tiny nation still living off of our colonial money.  We will still have a relatively prosperous future but I have said all along all of this fannying about will make no difference to the life of the average man on the street. It's just a pointless exercise during which people will and already are loosing their jobs. 

 

From a personal perspective I think it's just such a wasted opportunity. Liken it to the USA choosing to remain as separate states how much impact would Louisiana make on the world stage on their own? 

 

 

[siztenboots]

I do not think the EU protectionism will help them , the world is changing, not even Bilderberg can stop it.

[C8RKH]

I do not think the EU protectionism will help them , the world is changing, not even Bilderberg can stop it.

 

Spot on. As least we in the UK largely know we are irrelevant, the damn fools in the EU are sleep walking towards oblivion. Oh and in terms of trade and stuff Jonny the UK is the equivalent of about 12 of those 20 odd countries you mention....

[fiveoclock]

If we're so insignificant why are the rest of Europe shitting their pants because we're leaving?

[SteveA]

There are other things afoot in Europe too, the Italian thing is a worrying sign of things to come.

[C8RKH]

If we're so insignificant why are the rest of Europe shitting their pants because we're leaving?

 

Because we contribute and they take. Thought that was a pretty obvious one to be honest!

[Nev]

This whole ordeal has proven one thing that many have suspected for years. MPs do not represent anyone other than themselves and their own ambitions.
 

 

INDEED.

[Nev]

If we're so insignificant why are the rest of Europe shitting their pants because we're leaving?

 

They aren't, you dimwit; it's a pretence. The Uk's day is past (70+ years ago), the new "powers" will dominate.
 

Edited by Nev, 18 November 2018 - 08:35 PM.

[fiveoclock]

 

If we're so insignificant why are the rest of Europe shitting their pants because we're leaving?

 

Because we contribute and they take. Thought that was a pretty obvious one to be honest!

 

It was rhetorical question