1815 replies to this topic

[fiveoclock]

 

If we're so insignificant why are the rest of Europe shitting their pants because we're leaving?

 

They aren't, you dimwit; it's a pretence. The Uk's day is past (70+ years ago), the new "powers" will dominate.
 

 

You're the fcking dimwit if you think that but there again you've proved yourself to be a dimwit over and over again.

[Foxy]

If we're so insignificant why are the rest of Europe shitting their pants because we're leaving?

They aren't, you dimwit; it's a pretence. The Uk's day is past (70+ years ago), the new "powers" will dominate.

You're the fcking dimwit if you think that but there again you've proved yourself to be a dimwit over and over again.

How dare you suggest that you’re superior to Nev?!

[C8RKH]

 

 

If we're so insignificant why are the rest of Europe shitting their pants because we're leaving?

 

Because we contribute and they take. Thought that was a pretty obvious one to be honest!

 

It was rhetorical question

 

I ain't clever 'nuff for them rita orical damn questions boy!  You some kind of sourthern smart ass? 

[Rosssco]

Interesting comment on the proposed "deal".. 

 

https://www.spectato...al-verdict/amp/

[Dan r]

Oh sh*t

Sent from my G8441 using Tapatalk

[hairy]

Oh sh*t

Sent from my G8441 using Tapatalk

 

That doesn't look good

[jonnyboy]

What a load of bollocks no guessing which camp the spectator sit in. 500 pages and that's all they have found a bit of wording open to interpretation? No agreement is ever going to be perfect.

It's laughable that the Reece Mogg crew think they can do a better job they have used the public to try and get the top job that's all. All they are doing is handing power to Corbyn all he has to do is keep his trap shut and he will be PM.

If they lead us to a no deal the whole lot of them should be sacked. Total failure to carry out their public duty.

[Captain Vimes]

Interesting comment on the proposed "deal"..

https://www.spectato...al-verdict/amp/

Not new news....this was pointed out the day TM shared the details, it’s being summarised as ‘the Northern Ireland backstop’ in mainstream press and exactly why so many back bench MP’s are upset.

[PaulCP]

Copy of a post I made earlier on another forum below:

Throughout it all the media and majority of politicians have been the same

No journalist questions or askes the doom mongers to justify, quantify and qualify their statements by showing the masses and sources of research that has been carried out to formalise their conclusions.

It’s all opinions created to justify their blind ignorance and their personal and prejudiced vested interests, in the belief that the general public are just idiots. It is time some of the politicians were shown the door, they have outlasted their welcome, and the BBC & ITV reporters were brought to task as to why they can’t do their jobs right by mere reporting when it should also be their jobs to ensure that the public’s are correctly informed.

One of the first things I would do is inform the BBC that there is no more tax or licence payers money to fund their useless organisation and that, after the end of this year they are on their own so they can compete on the same ground as ITV etc.

As for Reece-Mog and his cronies, are they still watching endless episodes of House of Cards in the belief that it is the best training for them?

Edited by PaulCP, 23 November 2018 - 08:45 PM.

[jules_s]

Somerset Capital management

[Foxy]

If they lead us to a no deal the whole lot of them should be sacked. Total failure to carry out their public duty.

“No deal” is better than a bad deal.

[JG]

But no deal is not possible. it has neither backing from the public or parliament. And on the basis that the current deal is worse than remaining, wouldn't it be nice if we  just put it all behind us, accept it was 2 years and £billions of wasted time and money and instead, rather than Brexit dominating British politics for at least a generation as each successive governments seek to make the deal a little bit less bad, can't we now focus that effort and money on:

- Child poverty

- Policing and security

- Education, in particular school funding

- The NHS

- Transport and Infrastructure. 

- House of Lords reform

-And so on and so on

History (in factt it's already evident)  will show that these have all fallen behind because of Brexit. It was a vote which should never have come to bear because the effects of its distraction will last for decades and the country will be significantly weaker as a result.

 

(Some C&P from another forum)

[ianrm]

Well said James. I doubt I will ever see this resolved in my life time. 

 

There are to many governments, polititians, euro mps involved, all with there own agendas, to sort this horrible mess out.

 

It has divided our nation. 

[jonnyboy]

JG That's a very good point there cannot be "no deal" I hadn't actually thought of it in those terms but when people refer to no deal what they actually mean is no deal on the customs union. That said we do have an option of extending the leave date this is within the scope of article 50.

 

This is an argument for another day in any case as the trade talks cannot begin until March. Yes we can pontificate about the ins and outs before that but some of what the Spectator quotes is allowing for this further negotiation during the transition and for every point they say we will be wedded to the EU forever the EU are lumbered with us! 

 

The problem we have at the moment is that all of these power hungry politicians were saying they would vote the agreement down before they even knew what was in it! The fact is we have won more concessions from the EU than anyone over there thought we would. The NI issue will be sorted without this what is actually only a theoretical end of days scenario backstop crap it's a total total nine issue that's just a political football. 

 

Realistically it looks like we are heading for the "meaningful vote" to fall flat and a Tory leadership contest if May resigns which I really hope she doesn't. If she calls a GE it looks like a coalition with Corbyn at the head of it and probably another 12 months of uncertainty while they attempt another round of negotiations. 

 

All the time this is going on conditions for business are getting worse and worse. More jobs lost and the start of what could be another recession. And we did it all to ourselves. FFS. 

 

 

[C8RKH]

I disagree with you @JG. After all we did not have a referendum on a "deal" we had a referendum on in or out?  So saying "no deal" does not have public support is wrong and how is this backed up? I know many people who are happy to see a "no deal".

 

And your point re Brexit dominating British politics for at least a generation, well, isn't that what membership of the EU has done? When we look at the money and effort we have wasted on that institution?  How could that have been better spent over the past 30 years on:

- Child poverty

- Policing and security

- Education, in particular school funding

- The NHS

- Transport and Infrastructure. 

- And so on and so on.

 

History (in fact it's already evident)  will show that these have all fallen behind because of our membership of the EU and the interference in our culture, way of life etc. from Brussels and the EU. It was a vote which was long overdue because the effects of The distraction and protectionism from the EU will continue to last for decades and the country will be further significantly weakened as a result.

 

Sound familiar?

Thanks.

Edited by C8RKH, 24 November 2018 - 01:48 PM.

[JG]

If that was true,  two wrongs don't make a right. 

 

Much in the same way that we can't undo other signifiant political decisions of the past, undoing it is just too hard. 

 

I'm not really convinced Europe has dominated British politics over the last 30 years like Brexit has over the last 3. The EU has been present, in the background yes, but arguably Europe has helped in many of those issues rather than hindered in the way that Brexit has/is. 

 

No deal doesn't have backing primarily because there is no majority for it in Parliament 

https://www.theguard...-no-deal-brexit

The right wing papers report the same, it is fairly consistent. 

 

In addition, whether or not a few people you know would be happy with a no deal, the Leave campaign was fought on the basis that there would be a 'UK-EU Deal'

https://www.bbc.co.u...rendum-36534802

 

 

 

 

 

[Foxy]

James, whether I agree with you or not is moot. We can’t put it all behind us. The decision has been made. Therefore, there are only two options; deal or no deal. Remain is not an option.

[JG]

i sort of agree with you.

The reality though is that no deal Brexit is just as democratically unfathomable as remain is.

And therefore you have to play it out. Given where we are with a fudged deal that no one likes, and given that (having campaigned on getting a deal) neither remain nor no deal are acceptable what do you do?

Do you accept the fudge and therefore accept that Brexit dominates British political discourse for a generation, or, do you say we need to think again.

I think we’re heading there. Because put like that, another reforendum doesn’t seem so bad to me.

[jonnyboy]

I don't think it's out of the question we will have a second vote this will be something Labour will announce as soon as an election is called.

We voted for in or out

We didn't vote for in or have 5 years of turmoil while our elected representatives sell us out to further their own careers.

It was always going to be a hugely disruptive and damaging process which for me personally was plenty reason enough to vote remain.

[PaulCP]

Well said James. I doubt I will ever see this resolved in my life time.

There are to many governments, polititians, euro mps involved, all with there own agendas, to sort this horrible mess out.

With those chosen to lead events across the EU being neither elected nor accountable for their actions,fat salaries and future lifestyle secure income, all of them very reminiscent of Sebb Blatter.

Just consider the late Spanish attempt at getting only what they want, why has no senior EU official told them:-
“ok, deal is off which means your take from the EU pot is now down 5bn-10bn per year due to completely zero cash input from the U.K. on the no deal exit you have just caused, since the rest of the EU can’t cough it up. Oh, and by the way, what exactly is the Spanish position on the islands you claim to have sovereignty of close to Morocco?”

Additionally, politics in the U.K. have become totally misunderstood by the politicians. Corbyn and others just believe being the Opposition means oppose everything and abuse the opposition. Whatever happened to constructive discussion and debate?

Edited by PaulCP, 24 November 2018 - 02:30 PM.