1815 replies to this topic

[casino]

Brexit to date..

Like a badly run version of The Apprentice. Each MP after their own version of leaving, all shouting and screaming over each other, each wanting to over rule the appointed leader.

And no one completing the task.

Shameful.

[PaulCP]

Yep, each representing themselves and their vested motives.
We always knew this was the case but they have made it blatantly obvious over the past weeks

God help us if the pathetic Comrade Corbyn gets his way 😧😧

[oblomov]

God help us if the pathetic Comrade Corbyn gets his way 😧😧

I agree, what was he thinking when he took up politics? He has principles conscience and integrity, how could he have even considered politics as a suitable career?

[Rosssco]

Bams, bams that think brown people are their problem and will fill his coffers and pay for his new house in order that its changed....even though south asia isn't in the EU the last time I checked. Morons?
 
Also american right wing, Bannon and co are funding him now. 
 
Nothing progressive about him for sure.

 
I think that's over-simplifying it a bit Scott.. No doubt there are plenty bams, racists, bigots etc. that hold Tommy aloft as some form of crusader, but that misses the point somewhat with regards to the reasons why people like him and other elements of the right-wing have gained such prominence. And in fact just pointing the finger and calling them 'bams' fails to identify the problem and the feelings of marginalisation many working class communities have felt across the UK.

 

I don't think there have been calls to restrict migration from South Asia, but the waves of unfettered, open-border migration from 3rd world and Muslim-majority countries that the EU have condoned and actively encouraged, rightly doesn't sit well with all. You don't even have to be 'right-wing' to see that.

 

Yep, nationalists tend to support other nationalists, even across borders. Looks at Scot Nats / Catalonia / Irish Republican connections for the same thing.

 

Part of the problem is the 'progressive' agenda that dominates main stream politics across the UK and much of the Western world. The kick-back to that is that people place their bets on traditionally marginalised (many for good reason) political ideas / concepts / leaders, hence why we've landed with the Trumps / Bannon / Brexit. 

[Rosssco]

God help us if the pathetic Comrade Corbyn gets his way 😧😧

I agree, what was he thinking when he took up politics? He has principles conscience and integrity, how could he have even considered politics as a suitable career?

You mean solid principles such as complaining vigorously about Brexit, and how it will affect workers’ rights etc. despite being a total closet (cupboard?) Brexiteer, who actually needs out of the EU to have any chance of implementing his socialist agenda..?

Or espousing the many socialist virtues of Venezuela, until the inevitable socilatal collapse, at which stage you completely back track on all that..

[casino]

God help us if the pathetic Comrade Corbyn gets his way 😧😧

I agree, what was he thinking when he took up politics? He has principles conscience and integrity, how could he have even considered politics as a suitable career?

You mean solid principles such as complaining vigorously about Brexit, and how it will affect workers’ rights etc. despite being a total closet (cupboard?) Brexiteer, who actually needs out of the EU to have any chance of implementing his socialist agenda..?

Or espousing the many socialist virtues of Venezuela, until the inevitable socilatal collapse, at which stage you completely back track on all that..

Yes. Comrade Corbyn and Co have an answer to every single political problem, every political issue. Everything but how to get into power.

[Madmitch]

For many years I worked with a colleague who was a committed Marxist.  We had innumerable heated debates during some of which he tried to explain to me the merits of Communism, it's aims and ideals.  I have forgotten much of what he said but some points, relevant to Comrade Corbyn, have stuck in my mind.  Corbyn's objective would not be to be elected PM but to destabilise the government and the system of the country to such an extent that it becomes ungovernable and at that point would come the opportunity for the Communist powers to move in and take over.  He would explain that the ultimate objective was to install Communism throughout the world and that the longer and harder the struggle the more glorious the victory.  If that is all correct then it might explain the generally more aggressive stance the Russians are now adopting.

[Rosssco]

For many years I worked with a colleague who was a committed Marxist.  We had innumerable heated debates during some of which he tried to explain to me the merits of Communism, it's aims and ideals.  I have forgotten much of what he said but some points, relevant to Comrade Corbyn, have stuck in my mind.  Corbyn's objective would not be to be elected PM but to destabilise the government and the system of the country to such an extent that it becomes ungovernable and at that point would come the opportunity for the Communist powers to move in and take over.  He would explain that the ultimate objective was to install Communism throughout the world and that the longer and harder the struggle the more glorious the victory.  If that is all correct then it might explain the generally more aggressive stance the Russians are now adopting.

Communism (and its close bed-fellows of socialism, based on Marxist doctrine) is an experiment in social engineering that has failed at every single opportunity and has brought misery and death to the populations of those countries in the millions (estimated are somewhere between 100-150 million people died under Communist regimes in the 20th century, for example).

 

I have time for some socialist concepts (we live with them everyday) and happy to discuss what levels we set them at in a liberal democracy, but Communism should be compared with Nazism (even though its death toll is MUCH higher), but people are taken in by its friendly face as its a superficially awesome concept (free sh*t for everyone! Unless it was your sh*t they want), until the end up on the wrong side of the ruling class

 

I don't think we'll ever succumb to true Communism in this country, but the less obvious threat is the cultural Marxism that's already here and we live with everyday..

[oblomov]

For many years I worked with a colleague who was a committed Marxist.  We had innumerable heated debates during some of which he tried to explain to me the merits of Communism, it's aims and ideals.  I have forgotten much of what he said but some points, relevant to Comrade Corbyn, have stuck in my mind.  Corbyn's objective would not be to be elected PM but to destabilise the government and the system of the country to such an extent that it becomes ungovernable and at that point would come the opportunity for the Communist powers to move in and take over.  He would explain that the ultimate objective was to install Communism throughout the world and that the longer and harder the struggle the more glorious the victory.  If that is all correct then it might explain the generally more aggressive stance the Russians are now adopting.

 

If you read Marx (and Engels), many conclusions they draw are very relevant to modern times.  However I've always thought you'd have to be an idiot to subscribe to communism in any form because it's basically contrary to human nature, which is why it only exists where it's imposed on the people and even then it doesn't work because human nature still intervenes with those imposing it.  And yet Marx and Engels advanced these doctrinaire socialist theories apparently without understanding this.  I read a book recently about the rise of communism in Poland and it was interesting that the author had observed that those trying to advance and impose communism did not do so out of belief in what they espoused but rather they saw it as a way to gain power and influence to their own advantage.

 

I should add that I'm apolitical, I exercise my right to abstain from voting.

Edited by oblomov, 05 December 2018 - 02:33 PM.

[Rosssco]

 

For many years I worked with a colleague who was a committed Marxist.  We had innumerable heated debates during some of which he tried to explain to me the merits of Communism, it's aims and ideals.  I have forgotten much of what he said but some points, relevant to Comrade Corbyn, have stuck in my mind.  Corbyn's objective would not be to be elected PM but to destabilise the government and the system of the country to such an extent that it becomes ungovernable and at that point would come the opportunity for the Communist powers to move in and take over.  He would explain that the ultimate objective was to install Communism throughout the world and that the longer and harder the struggle the more glorious the victory.  If that is all correct then it might explain the generally more aggressive stance the Russians are now adopting.

 
If you read Marx (and Engels), many conclusions they draw are very relevant to modern times.  However I've always thought you'd have to be an idiot to subscribe to communism in any form because it's basically contrary to human nature, which is why it only exists where it's imposed on the people and even then it doesn't work because human nature still intervenes with those imposing it.  And yet Marx and Engels advanced these doctrinaire socialist theories apparently without understanding this.  I read a book recently about the rise of communism in Poland and it was interesting that the author had observed that those trying to advance and impose communism did not do so out of belief in what they espoused but rather they saw it as a way to gain power and influence to their own advantage.
 
I should add that I'm apolitical, I exercise my right to abstain from voting.

 

 
Agreed. Marx analysis and identification of the problems with capitalism were, and still are, accurate and still very prescient. I don't agree with the solutions outlined though. Indeed Marx acknowledges many of the benefits and successes in capitalism, and in some ways its a 'cherry-picking' of certain capitalist concepts (the means of production, being the most well known) that the socialist 'state' is founded on.

[jonnyboy]

Our elected representatives are all doing the country a huge dis service currently. 

 

With the benefit of hindsight we should have had bi or tri partisan negotiations with the EU at least that may have resulted in something different to the mess we have now. 

 

Everyone seems to be opposing May just for the sake of it. Corbyn would seriously argue rain was dry if May said otherwise. The guy is a dark force in politics. The parliamentary party had the right instinct when he first got elected. Plot like hell to get him out. Best case scenario at the moment we end up with him heading up a coalition in the new year with an article 50 extension or as it seems to be a bit of a grower at the moment people's vote. I think we will have to see a GE and article 50 extension in any case. 

 

All this time is passing by and every day there is money not being invested and uncertainty growing.  I would say as we are at the moment we will not be leaving the EU in March next year. 

 

 

[Madmitch]

 

 

For many years I worked with a colleague who was a committed Marxist.  We had innumerable heated debates during some of which he tried to explain to me the merits of Communism, it's aims and ideals.  I have forgotten much of what he said but some points, relevant to Comrade Corbyn, have stuck in my mind.  Corbyn's objective would not be to be elected PM but to destabilise the government and the system of the country to such an extent that it becomes ungovernable and at that point would come the opportunity for the Communist powers to move in and take over.  He would explain that the ultimate objective was to install Communism throughout the world and that the longer and harder the struggle the more glorious the victory.  If that is all correct then it might explain the generally more aggressive stance the Russians are now adopting.

 
If you read Marx (and Engels), many conclusions they draw are very relevant to modern times.  However I've always thought you'd have to be an idiot to subscribe to communism in any form because it's basically contrary to human nature, which is why it only exists where it's imposed on the people and even then it doesn't work because human nature still intervenes with those imposing it.  And yet Marx and Engels advanced these doctrinaire socialist theories apparently without understanding this.  I read a book recently about the rise of communism in Poland and it was interesting that the author had observed that those trying to advance and impose communism did not do so out of belief in what they espoused but rather they saw it as a way to gain power and influence to their own advantage.
 
I should add that I'm apolitical, I exercise my right to abstain from voting.

 

 
Agreed. Marx analysis and identification of the problems with capitalism were, and still are, accurate and still very prescient. I don't agree with the solutions outlined though. Indeed Marx acknowledges many of the benefits and successes in capitalism, and in some ways its a 'cherry-picking' of certain capitalist concepts (the means of production, being the most well known) that the socialist 'state' is founded on.

 

 

Agree with all of that, would add that every communist state that has ever existed has relied on force and fear, gulags and secret police, for it's survival.  The point I'm making though is that for every committed communist the war goes on until it's won and Communism rules the world, there is no time limit or truce.  I don't think any of us truly know Corbyn's aims and objectives but he is the first UK politician I've seen whose behaviour actually fits my old colleague's description, the prevaricating, the changes of direction, it all fits.  Always beware of the things you take for granted, you never see it coming until too late.

[jonnyboy]

I wouldn't worry too much if he does get into office he will make some massive cock up or other and be ousted very quickly. He's not leadership material by a long stretch. 

[LY_Scott]

Bams, bams that think brown people are their problem and will fill his coffers and pay for his new house in order that its changed....even though south asia isn't in the EU the last time I checked. Morons?
 
Also american right wing, Bannon and co are funding him now. 
 
Nothing progressive about him for sure.
[/quote]
 
 
 
 

I think that's over-simplifying it a bit Scott.. No doubt there are plenty bams, racists, bigots etc. that hold Tommy aloft as some form of crusader, but that misses the point somewhat with regards to the reasons why people like him and other elements of the right-wing have gained such prominence. And in fact just pointing the finger and calling them 'bams' fails to identify the problem and the feelings of marginalisation many working class communities have felt across the UK.

You're absolutely right. Tory policy since the crash and lack of regulation before it is the reason the economy is struggling and the poor are marginalised. We can get on to Universal Credit or the rise of the gig economy and zero hours contracts? Lack of investment in the NHS, zero building of social housing in England, outrageous buying up of foreign property ownership in London by the continued lawfulness of non-doms and shell companies... none of that is the fault of EU migrants who will come here and work and do their bet with the rest of us plebs.

 
 

I don't think there have been calls to restrict migration from South Asia, but the waves of unfettered, open-border migration from 3rd world and Muslim-majority countries that the EU have condoned and actively encouraged, rightly doesn't sit well with all. You don't even have to be 'right-wing' to see that.

You're absolutely right again Ross, the referendum was about the EU. So how come Tommy keeps going on about Muslims? Can you point out the Muslim country in the EU? How has this come to be part of the debate? You could look to Farage and his poster for starters. The funniest part about this for me if that the loss of EU migrants to fill spots in our NHS and services industries will absolutely mean more migrants from South Asia and Africa to fill these places. The mind boggles.

 
 

Yep, nationalists tend to support other nationalists, even across borders. Looks at Scot Nats / Catalonia / Irish Republican connections for the same thing.

This is just sophistry. We've found ourselves in a similar point in history to those rising in Catalonia. Not sure I see links to the Irish Republicans. You just sound like some loyalist who'll be posting pictures with Salmond(As FM of Scotland) and McGuinness (As Deputy FM of Northern Ireland) next then I'll have to post one with McGuinness and the queen etc. Try harder.

 
 

 
Part of the problem is the 'progressive' agenda that dominates main stream politics across the UK and much of the Western world. The kick-back to that is that people place their bets on traditionally marginalised (many for good reason) political ideas / concepts / leaders, hence why we've landed with the Trumps / Bannon / Brexit.

I can agree with this. There's a lot wrong with how politics has went in the west. But the answers aren't demagogues, protectionism, ethic nationalism, throwing climate change under the bus.

The biggest problem with the west is we're too distracted by nonsense and crap on TV, social media and reporting which has replaced journalism, whether that is by design or by fluke we've become dumber as a society

There's also the Russian factor, there is absolutely no doubt that the Russians were involved in Trump and Brexit. They were involved in our indyref to an extent too we were just not wise to it at that point. Putin seeks to weaken the West for his own ends and he has achieved it. The west is in no position to stop his moves while we are distracted by all of this.[/quote][/quote]

Edited by LY_Scott, 07 December 2018 - 11:35 AM.

[Rosssco]

 

 

Bams, bams that think brown people are their problem and will fill his coffers and pay for his new house in order that its changed....even though south asia isn't in the EU the last time I checked. Morons?
 
Also american right wing, Bannon and co are funding him now. 
 
Nothing progressive about him for sure.
[/quote]
 
 
 
 

 

I think that's over-simplifying it a bit Scott.. No doubt there are plenty bams, racists, bigots etc. that hold Tommy aloft as some form of crusader, but that misses the point somewhat with regards to the reasons why people like him and other elements of the right-wing have gained such prominence. And in fact just pointing the finger and calling them 'bams' fails to identify the problem and the feelings of marginalisation many working class communities have felt across the UK.

You're absolutely right. Tory policy since the crash and lack of regulation before it is the reason the economy is struggling and the poor are marginalised. We can get on to Universal Credit or the rise of the gig economy and zero hours contracts? Lack of investment in the NHS, zero building of social housing in England, outrageous buying up of foreign property ownership in London by the continued lawfulness of non-doms and shell companies... none of that is the fault of EU migrants who will come here and work and do their bet with the rest of us plebs.

 
Well your response come directly with your own ideological bias (fair enough, rather than an in-biased assessment of the facts. For example, financial deregulation happened primarily under a Labour government, and it was actually the Tories that created many of the current regulatory structures, financial assessment, OBR etc. in the wake of the GLOBAL financial crash. The idea it was the nasty Tories that the economy is stuggling is actually wrong. Post-financial crash, the UK was one of the very few EU countries that came back to relative growth, in contrast to the anaemic growth rates and negative interest rates across the majority of the Eurozone. The rest of your points, I have some agreement with, but some are just the usual lefty/ Toaries-evil stuff

 

 

I don't think there have been calls to restrict migration from South Asia, but the waves of unfettered, open-border migration from 3rd world and Muslim-majority countries that the EU have condoned and actively encouraged, rightly doesn't sit well with all. You don't even have to be 'right-wing' to see that.

You're absolutely right again Ross, the referendum was about the EU. So how come Tommy keeps going on about Muslims? Can you point out the Muslim country in the EU? How has this come to be part of the debate? You could look to Farage and his poster for starters. The funniest part about this for me if that the loss of EU migrants to fill spots in our NHS and services industries will absolutely mean more migrants from South Asia and Africa to fill these places. The mind boggles.

That's exactly the point! There are no majority-Muslim EU countries (Turkey being the closest to membership), yet over the last few years there has been around 1.5 million migrants entering the EU borders. Most of these are economic migrants, rather than genuine refugees. The implication being, there is effectively no border to the EU. If you make it here, you can stay. Now you can take a completely 'open-borders' view to the world in general (the West being the only place that will do that, weirdly). This is a different issue (but often conflated) with general EU migration. I guess people got sick of exporting control of their borders to an agency who effectively says, there are no borders..
 

 

Yep, nationalists tend to support other nationalists, even across borders. Looks at Scot Nats / Catalonia / Irish Republican connections for the same thing.

This is just sophistry. We've found ourselves in a similar point in history to those rising in Catalonia. Not sure I see links to the Irish Republicans. You just sound like some loyalist who'll be posting pictures with Salmond(As FM of Scotland) and McGuinness (As Deputy FM of Northern Ireland) next then I'll have to post one with McGuinness and the queen etc. Try harder.

Haha, its in no way sophistry! And you're not rising, settle down There are clear and evident links between Catalonia, with the FM inviting various (sometimes slightly dubious) characters to meet up, to the constant presence of Catalan flags at every flag-waving event. Come on.. Less obvious with Irish republicanism, but there's always been a bit of a link given the nature of West coast politics etc. I could try find the stuff on the SNP councillors who often post crap on Irish reunification etc. (I'm not saying this is widespread or you are condoning it, btw) Anyway, getting off topic!
 

 

 
Part of the problem is the 'progressive' agenda that dominates main stream politics across the UK and much of the Western world. The kick-back to that is that people place their bets on traditionally marginalised (many for good reason) political ideas / concepts / leaders, hence why we've landed with the Trumps / Bannon / Brexit.

I can agree with this. There's a lot wrong with how politics has went in the west. But the answers aren't demagogues, protectionism, ethic nationalism, throwing climate change under the bus.

The biggest problem with the west is we're too distracted by nonsense and crap on TV, social media and reporting which has replaced journalism, whether that is by design or by fluke we've become dumber as a society

There's also the Russian factor, there is absolutely no doubt that the Russians were involved in Trump and Brexit. They were involved in our indyref to an extent too we were just not wise to it at that point. Putin seeks to weaken the West for his own ends and he has achieved it. The west is in no position to stop his moves while we are distracted by all of this.[/quote][/quote]

 

Agreed. We are heading towards what feels like an Idiocracy scenario. The Russians are playing the same games they always have to an extent, but from the Russian side of things (not that I'm a big fan), they see the EU neo-colonialism encroaching on their borders, Ukraine being the most obvious example, where in effect, the US and EU constructed what essentially amounted to a Western-backed coup to place an EU-friendly leader in power. They are just playing dirty in return..

 

[Crazyfrog (Fab)]

hello everyone and yes i am still alive minus one all finger    

.....the way i see it monday they are voting in belgium to be 100 % right you can stay in the europeen union      .......

not being a uk citizen but have live 37 years in uk and own a vx since 2002 i shall say it is a pure joke and a hard Brexit will be the best for united kingdom to achieve than all this pathetic bullshit .....

if this is a hard brexit i will have to stay in uk  too much money too loose specially it the pound goes pear shape ...

my last holiday was in yorkshire last month and beautiful place specially the pub and i spent my hard earn cash in this country ...back on the 24 th of December this year to Finnish all yorkshire dales for 10 days ( not in the vx  )    any invite ill come to see you   fully mobile and dont need hotel in my picky caravan  .

 

 

 

ps the site seems to be so bloody quiet those days ? where is everybody ?

 

 

[casino]

hello everyone and yes i am still alive minus one all finger
.....the way i see it monday they are voting in belgium to be 100 % right you can stay in the europeen union .......
not being a uk citizen but have live 37 years in uk and own a vx since 2002 i shall say it is a pure joke and a hard Brexit will be the best for united kingdom to achieve than all this pathetic bullshit .....
if this is a hard brexit i will have to stay in uk too much money too loose specially it the pound goes pear shape ...
my last holiday was in yorkshire last month and beautiful place specially the pub and i spent my hard earn cash in this country ...back on the 24 th of December this year to Finnish all yorkshire dales for 10 days ( not in the vx ) any invite ill come to see you fully mobile and dont need hotel in my picky caravan .



ps the site seems to be so bloody quiet those days ? where is everybody ?

Everyone is in Casino’s drinking den. Hiding from Brexit.
If you talk Brexit in there you get thrown out. If you talk Yorkshire holidays then it’s ok,

[Ormes]

Talking about a general election again this morning... one of two outcomes...  That socialist bufoon Corbyn will get in, or we will have neednessly dumped the UK into yet another period of uncertainty.  It is the absolute last thing that this country needs right now... but as stated by others above, they are all in it for themselves, rather than a good outcome for the UK. 

[Jetpilot]

There probably isnt a good outcome, we either throw the economy under the bus (if you believe that the case and follow through with the leave vote) or we throw political system under the bus with another referendum, all depends which you deem worse really.

[Ivor]

Talking about a general election again this morning... one of two outcomes... That socialist bufoon Corbyn will get in, or we will have neednessly dumped the UK into yet another period of uncertainty. It is the absolute last thing that this country needs right now... but as stated by others above, they are all in it for themselves, rather than a good outcome for the UK.

That's increasingly my view, they are in It for themselves..