1815 replies to this topic

[gaffer1986]

Fcuk me. Call the Sunday Sport. John Lennon is alive and well and posting on here from some hitherto unknown hippy commune in Colchester. Guess the old transcendental meditation must have left him in a trance for the last 30 years from which he's just awoken.

 

haha, being compared to John Lennon, my guitar skills just shot up!

[christhegasman]

I fully agree we do have way too many lazy English living on the benefit system Which is the reason we as a county can't afford any more untill we are allowed to get our own house in order and are free to spend our own cash on schools and health services to name but two and we can only do this when we stop pissing cash away on our eu contributions for which we get nothing

  I don't agree with allowing people in to live off the benefit system. That's not the EUs fault that's our stupid system. Although a contradiction, without our stupid system we would have a lot more crime, welfare is a very effective and cheap way of reducing crime.

So your way forward is no one needs ever to work and we can all live off the benefit system Hmm who funds the system then ? I'm sorry if your utopia can't exist but why should I work so some scumbag British or otherwise can sit and watch tv all day or worse still why I now have to wait longer for my state pension (which was guaranteed to be mine at 65 but not any more ) so the fcuking lazy Greeks can retire early and bankrupt their own country but no worries they can have some of our cash via the eu But I genuinely believe this is all academic as we won't be allowed to leave and things will carry on untill we are als bankrupt the welfare system can't carry on supporting more and more people can it ? Where will the cash come from ? Hence we need to control the amount of claimants , and the only way is to stop economic migrants who only cone here for handouts and a council house

Edited by christhegasman, 12 April 2016 - 08:31 PM.

[gaffer1986]

I don't believe anyone should live off the benefit system if they are capable of working. I believe everyone should help out and do their part. I merely said that welfare is a cheap and effective way of reducing crime which is the main reason it exists. I used to work for a government funded training organisation to help get unemployed people into work, I know first hand that a lot of long term unemployed genuinely don't want to work and will do everything they can to avoid it. But if they didn't get welfare there would be crime, then the money would just go on police and prisons instead. Do you want to bring back capital punishment for laziness? It's a hard situation to deal with.

 

Let the foreigners in who want to help out. Send foreigners back who don't want to work.

 

I'm not sure if we can help these people as most no longer believe in themselves and want to avoid trying because when you don't try you can't fail.

 

I understand you must be annoyed about the pension situation, question is, why does Greece need our help? Is it because the world has limited resources and if a small percentage gets most of them a big percentage has to do without? There is enough food for 11 billion, 7 billion people, 1 billion people starving.

Edited by gaffer1986, 12 April 2016 - 08:43 PM.

[ianrm]

In my eyes it is going to be impossible to form an unbiased opinion on which way to vote.

 

Nobody can actually say what will happen if we leave.

 

Whilst this country does have a few problems, in the grand scheme of things the vast majority of us are doing ok and things are not that bad compared to a lot of other countries.

 

If we stay in we know what we are getting and if the EU gets really messed up we could just walk away?

 

If we leave and it all goes Tits up who is going to help us?

 

 

[Madmitch]

Interesting to see this has fired up again so just to keep the pot bubbling..................

 

As I have observed before, we must be better off as a major player in the biggest and wealthiest trading block on the planet, than out of it and having to set up new trade deals, over new tariff barriers, with people who will feel that we have turned our backs on them so they owe us nothing and who will do their best to take over from us.  The 'outs' keep on emotionally about how wonderful everything will suddenly and magically become but without a single solid fact or figure to back it up, why, because there are none, it is a complete unknown!  What is a fact is that there will be years of negotiations and uncertainty whilst the unravelling goes on during which our currency will slide because nobody will want to hold a lot of Sterling which may eventually be worth much less.  If we leave we will be out in the cold, to think otherwise is cloud cuckoo land!  As for the people who don't want to work, they will still be there come what may, with their beaks open as before, we will just have less money for them and for things like the NHS, the roads, the schools and so on. 

 

I was born during WWll and I remember how terribly short we were of all the basics, including food, in the immediate post war years.  Nobody cared a toss.  Churchill sent Maynard Keynes to Washington to beg for a loan and he was turned down flat.  Churchill, a hero in America, went himself to Washington to beg for money and came away with about half what he asked for, which incidentally we only finished paying back in December 2006.  Nobody owes us anything, if we leave they will rub their hands and make hay whilst we will find it increasingly hard to overcome the trade barriers that they will inevitably erect against us.

[Captain Vimes]

 

... we must be better off as a major player in the biggest and wealthiest trading block on the planet, than out of it

 

...people who will feel that we have turned our backs on them so they owe us nothing and who will do their best to take over from us. 

 

 

 

The 'outs' keep on emotionally ...without a single solid fact or figure to back it up, why, because there are none, it is a complete unknown! 

 

Pot..Kettle??

 

[Harry Hornet]

Max To many words They need us more than we need them...OUT..

[Madmitch]

They do need us, but nobody is indispensable, not even us.  Don't think I have got the pot / kettle bit though, unless you are saying that we will be better off with Lichtenstein and Iceland!! 

[gaffer1986]

Interesting to see this has fired up again so just to keep the pot bubbling..................

 

As I have observed before, we must be better off as a major player in the biggest and wealthiest trading block on the planet, than out of it and having to set up new trade deals, over new tariff barriers, with people who will feel that we have turned our backs on them so they owe us nothing and who will do their best to take over from us.  The 'outs' keep on emotionally about how wonderful everything will suddenly and magically become but without a single solid fact or figure to back it up, why, because there are none, it is a complete unknown!  What is a fact is that there will be years of negotiations and uncertainty whilst the unravelling goes on during which our currency will slide because nobody will want to hold a lot of Sterling which may eventually be worth much less.  If we leave we will be out in the cold, to think otherwise is cloud cuckoo land!  As for the people who don't want to work, they will still be there come what may, with their beaks open as before, we will just have less money for them and for things like the NHS, the roads, the schools and so on. 

 

I was born during WWll and I remember how terribly short we were of all the basics, including food, in the immediate post war years.  Nobody cared a toss.  Churchill sent Maynard Keynes to Washington to beg for a loan and he was turned down flat.  Churchill, a hero in America, went himself to Washington to beg for money and came away with about half what he asked for, which incidentally we only finished paying back in December 2006.  Nobody owes us anything, if we leave they will rub their hands and make hay whilst we will find it increasingly hard to overcome the trade barriers that they will inevitably erect against us.

 

I think you make a very well informed point. The EU referendum reminds me of the Scottish independence referendum a couple of years ago when nearly half the country voted for independence. So nearly half of all Scottish have no idea how lucky they are to be part of the United Kingdom. More patriotism and ignorance than understanding. 

[WrightStuff]

The 'outs' keep on emotionally about how wonderful everything will suddenly and magically become but without a single solid fact or figure to back it up, why, because there are none, it is a complete unknown!  What is a fact is that there will be years of negotiations and uncertainty whilst the unravelling goes on during which our currency will slide because nobody will want to hold a lot of Sterling which may eventually be worth much less.  If we leave we will be out in the cold, to think otherwise is cloud cuckoo land!  As for the people who don't want to work, they will still be there come what may, with their beaks open as before, we will just have less money for them and for things like the NHS, the roads, the schools and so on. 

 

Ok you've chosen this tone so I'll bite.

 

Fact: We will be net 33 million quid per day better off as a nation as we won't be paying EU member contributions

That will pay for quite a few roads schools and hospitals won't it ?

 

Fact: We will regain control of our borders. I don't know how anybody can argue that under EU free movement directives having completely uncontrolled immigration is a good idea ? Do you like the idea of our cities turning into segragated ghettos ? Roads gridlocked and an already collapsing NHS under even more pressure ?

Just because its not on your doorstep now you can see where this is going if left unchecked. 

 

Fact: We will not be subjected to laws made by people we have no democratic process to get rid of

The EU accounts haven't been signed off for 20 years and yet they feel perfectly justified in sending out demands for member states to foot the bill of EU budget black holes that keep popping up (as happened in 2014). 

 

Any impact on our net wealth as a result of Brexit can be argued one way or another. For sure it will be more difficult to trade with the rest of europe as we will be subjected to trade tariffs but we will be free to do trade deals direct with the rest of the world. Something we cannot do now.

Next year Canada will start its trade agreement with the EU that eliminates 98% of tariffs between the 2.

At what point did you lose confidence that we can't achieve this ? It will not happen instantly, but it can be done.

We were happily doing trade deals with our neighbours long before the EU and will do after. We are the worlds #5 biggest economy ffs!

[Andrew aka Stuwy]

what we need is first contact.

 

don't see any Muslims in star trek  

[Captain Vimes]

They do need us, but nobody is indispensable, not even us.  Don't think I have got the pot / kettle bit though, unless you are saying that we will be better off with Lichtenstein and Iceland!! 

"The phrase "The pot calling the kettle black" is an idiom used to claim that a person is guilty of the very thing of which they accuse another." You claimed that there are no facts about what will happen in the event of an out decision and proceeded to state as fact what would happen in the event of an out decision.

[Madmitch]

 

The 'outs' keep on emotionally about how wonderful everything will suddenly and magically become but without a single solid fact or figure to back it up, why, because there are none, it is a complete unknown!  What is a fact is that there will be years of negotiations and uncertainty whilst the unravelling goes on during which our currency will slide because nobody will want to hold a lot of Sterling which may eventually be worth much less.  If we leave we will be out in the cold, to think otherwise is cloud cuckoo land!  As for the people who don't want to work, they will still be there come what may, with their beaks open as before, we will just have less money for them and for things like the NHS, the roads, the schools and so on. 

 

Ok you've chosen this tone so I'll bite.

 

Fact: We will be net 33 million quid per day better off as a nation as we won't be paying EU member contributions

That will pay for quite a few roads schools and hospitals won't it ?

 

Fact: We will regain control of our borders. I don't know how anybody can argue that under EU free movement directives having completely uncontrolled immigration is a good idea ? Do you like the idea of our cities turning into segragated ghettos ? Roads gridlocked and an already collapsing NHS under even more pressure ?

Just because its not on your doorstep now you can see where this is going if left unchecked. 

 

Fact: We will not be subjected to laws made by people we have no democratic process to get rid of

The EU accounts haven't been signed off for 20 years and yet they feel perfectly justified in sending out demands for member states to foot the bill of EU budget black holes that keep popping up (as happened in 2014). 

 

Any impact on our net wealth as a result of Brexit can be argued one way or another. For sure it will be more difficult to trade with the rest of europe as we will be subjected to trade tariffs but we will be free to do trade deals direct with the rest of the world. Something we cannot do now.

Next year Canada will start its trade agreement with the EU that eliminates 98% of tariffs between the 2.

At what point did you lose confidence that we can't achieve this ? It will not happen instantly, but it can be done.

We were happily doing trade deals with our neighbours long before the EU and will do after. We are the worlds #5 biggest economy ffs!

 

Good man, some facts at last.

 

We may not be paying £33m per day but we will also not be getting money from the EU, like £8.8 billion for research between 2007 and 2013, £40m for Swansea University's Bay Campus, more than £400m for the A465, £3.1bn to farmers as subsidies in 2013, it's all on the internet, loads and loads of it.

 

We may regain control of our borders but they are so porous that it may make little difference, lorry loads of illegals found regularly on UK motorways?  Will leaving really make a difference?  That said I absolutely agree that uncontrolled immigration is not good, nor are ghetto cities.

 

I agree it may be easier to get rid of unwanted people but very often they are the people not wanted by their state of origin either, what then?

 

I agree absolutely that the EU accounts business is an absolute scandal and needs to be sorted.  

 

Re your last para, we were indeed doing trade deals with all and sundry before the EU, but we also had a Commonwealth supplying us with lamb, milk, timber and allsorts, at cheaper prices than world market rates.  It's a different world now and all those old allies now deal with others, Oz and NZ with Japan for example.  

 

I agree with many points that you make but I worry that many will decide on 'out' for emotional reasons, blaming Europe for things that we could put right now if we had the political will or the money, but we don't and haven't so we just keep blaming somebody else.   

[christhegasman]

They do need us, but nobody is indispensable, not even us.  Don't think I have got the pot / kettle bit though, unless you are saying that we will be better off with Lichtenstein and Iceland!! 

yep Iceland and Norway are not doing too bad are they ? Can't see how anyone that chose to leave these shores and live somewhere else for a better life? can tell us to stay in as we will be better off how do you know if you are not subject to it all day every day

Edited by christhegasman, 13 April 2016 - 03:50 PM.

[Madmitch]

I do come home from time to time you know, was there last April and will be there in July for a family wedding.  Anyway, what's wrong with wanting a better life, if that's what it is!  

[christhegasman]

Fully agree Mitch leave the uk and live somewhere else for a better life is your privilege And visiting for a few days does not give you the full picture , So please don't tell us how great it is here ! If it's that good move back here and see how fantastic our overcrowded under resourced country has become under the eu

Edited by christhegasman, 13 April 2016 - 04:42 PM.

[Madmitch]

Chris, I'm not telling you how good it is there nor am I saying that, if you think it is so bad there, you should move here!  Both the UK and France are in the EU remember, and both share many similar problems!  We should be simply enjoying a lively debate about the future of the UK, nothing more!!   

[christhegasman]

Mitch I am not saying or passing any comments about France and if I consider it better there or not Because I do not live there so feel I am not qualified to pass a comment on France or any of our eu puppet masters I am just saying that it is difficult for anyone not living in the uk to have the full picture when we are even in the dark about a lot of dodgy Daves ' negotiated new deal or what the consequences of leaving or staying in will be Just my opinion is out at least we will have control of our own spending and borders also will then only import what we have to instead of what we are told to

[Madmitch]

OK, point taken!  Good job we don't all think the same or it would be very boring.  Perhaps when we come over this summer over we won't be allowed in, illegal immigrants and all that!

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

just been visited by My grandad, he went to chelford market to buy some seed potatoes so he could grow his own and some for the family . the market trader asked to see his licence, what licence he asked, due to eu legislation to keep potato prices high for french farmers you have to have a licence, the market trader said he knows what were going through but he can be prosecuted if he sold without a licence,