209 replies to this topic

[jonnyboy]

I'd just charge the VX the Honda Elise are very quick with the weight and that na power but you'll have a lot more outlay. The red one I have in is 22k and the Mexico one will be 20k but it's a cat D Base car.

[Tusk]

Yea not looking to go up to £20k so rules out a dealer one I guess!

[jonnyboy]

There's no real dealer premium to be had with Lotus stuff to be honest. Any smart Honda car will be in that price bracket. I did one for 16500 recently but it needed a respray although mechanically good. It's a 12k conversion these days so a big commitment for someone to commission and pay to have done but they will retain almost all of that come resale. The two I have are fully sorted cars with motorsport seats and high end suspension setups.

[Tusk]

Yea I did have a browse and saw conversion costs of £10k+ - not for the faint hearted. I did see a few listed around £15k previously but I guess I never saw their paint or the cars up close. Couldn't be happy with a poor one either. Plus paint is so damn pricey you'd be better paying out in the first place for a nice example.

[Captain Vimes]

Tusk, you're not the only one that hankers after a Honda based elise. I loved the b16a in my old civic and think it would be a great engine in an elise based car. But..not sure it'd be worth a premium over an SC vx. I need to have a drive to find out. Hoping to get a passenger ride in the BAT mobile at the national. A good alternative would be a tuned 2.0 B207 on ITB's in a vx with the zafira diff. With the same basic architecture as a k20 I'm sure it would be a great combination and much cheaper than a Honda elise. I think Fab runs this setup..? In the meantime, every time an ITB vx comes up for sale I think about a swap but think I'd miss the SC torque too much.

[gaffer1986]

Honda cars kick the arse of the 111R. I have one in at the moment and another one coming soon which I might be keeping (its Mexico blue like my old Elise) The performance is amazing and no waiting for the 2nd cam and the Vtech comes in at 4k with the K pro. They are almost always based on the older lighter Rover based cars as well. 

It does sound good.

[gaffer1986]

Tusk, you're not the only one that hankers after a Honda based elise. I loved the b16a in my old civic and think it would be a great engine in an elise based car. But..not sure it'd be worth a premium over an SC vx. I need to have a drive to find out. Hoping to get a passenger ride in the BAT mobile at the national. A good alternative would be a tuned 2.0 B207 on ITB's in a vx with the zafira diff. With the same basic architecture as a k20 I'm sure it would be a great combination and much cheaper than a Honda elise. I think Fab runs this setup..? In the meantime, every time an ITB vx comes up for sale I think about a swap but think I'd miss the SC torque too much.

Are you saying the Honda engine is similar to the Saab engine?

[Captain Vimes]

Are you saying the Honda engine is similar to the Saab engine?

In many ways, yes: Same bore and stroke, modern aluminium 2.0 IL4. The B207 is good for 300bhp on stock internals. Add some ITB's, good flowing head, cams, Dutch software and decent exhaust and I dare say power would be similar. Obviously the Honda's party trick of VTEC is unique though. I'm sure vocky would be better able to advise on details but in character I'd imagine it's in the same direction. But it's much more expensive than a stg2 SC for similar power...

[gaffer1986]

I see, so you mean it's a similar design of engine. I thought you meant it was the same engine with a different tune. Vocky does have a pretty awesome car.

[Tusk]

I'd just charge the VX the Honda Elise are very quick with the weight and that na power but you'll have a lot more outlay. The red one I have in is 22k and the Mexico one will be 20k but it's a cat D Base car.

Just re-read this - I think you're right that pound for pound SC is phenomenal value against the other Elise alternatives. Probably not something I'll explore just now. Feels a bit like I've ruined he marquee for myself, the VX is such great value compared to the Elise and the SC so much cheaper and/or more reliable it makes it difficult to justify a fast Elise!

Edited by Tusk, 29 March 2016 - 07:08 PM.

[gaffer1986]

The S3 is a looker though.. Damn Sexy Imo

[Tusk]

I quite like the higher spec ones - a guy at work has a 220 Cup that looks pretty damn awesome. The V6 Exige is a stunner as well - definitely want one of those but probably a good few years away for me.

[gaffer1986]

Out of my price range also. But it's good to dream.

[Tusk]

Haha me too mate - just waiting for depreciation to do its thing

[rob999]

The V6 is definitely not a stunner 😐

[techieboy]

It might be a bit of a lard arse but it's the only decent looking Lotus since the last Esprit's (or maybe some of Bahar's mock-ups). Those extra few inches made all the difference.

[Mangham54]

It might be a bit of a lard arse but it's the only decent looking Lotus since the last Esprit's (or maybe some of Bahar's mock-ups). Those extra few inches made all the difference.

Is that you or Jo typing?

[gaffer1986]

These cars depreciate very very slowly. It's a shame they don't offer a finance deal with a balloon payment that is somewhere near the actual residual value of the car. The Elise S only seems to lose about £10,000 over 3 years, I could afford that.

[Mangham54]

Problem is PCH deals can hurt residuals, so Lotus values would take a dive if they did.

[gaffer1986]

True and false.

 

True because making a car more affordable will lead to more sales and more cars on the used market will lead to higher depreciation lowering the allowable balloon payment for future purchases.

 

False because an Elise S would not be £37,000 if mass produced on a bigger scale. My Leon FR cost £20,000 and is way more car than a plastic Elise S with a Toyota engine. I guarantee a lot more money has gone into developing the Leon but because they mass produce it on a big scale the profit margin per car can be significantly less. Therefore if Lotus got a lot more sales they could probably sell it for something similar to an MX5.

 

I'm guessing if Lotus sold as many Elises as PSA does C1s, 108s and Aygos the Elise would be similar money.

 

The real problem: just not enough people want a small light mid engined sports car with little comfort which is a shame. Track days would be cheaper if they were more popular also and there would probably be more circuits closer to home.

 

It would be great if there was a big enough market for Vauxhall to resurrect the VX220 and Toyota to badge there own variant of the Elise with the same chassis and engine. Then prices would drop significantly, but the car would no longer seem as special, but I don't care, so long as it drives the same.

Edited by gaffer1986, 30 March 2016 - 07:00 PM.