27 replies to this topic

[chickendippers]

Hi all,

 

I'm looking for a bit of advice from any legal boffins on here please?

To cut a long story short, in February of this year I bought a forged engine for the VX. The engine hadn't been ran since all the new parts were installed so was in effect a fresh build. Issues with the engine were apparent immediately after fitting in early March, with a bad misfire, blue smoke, high oil consumption and when removing the plugs to make sure they were ok, high amounts of oil on top of pistons 1 & 3, as well as an oil leak from the crank oil seal. 

 

I had hoped that the oil on pistons issues was just a case of the rings not bedding in properly but after doing less than 100 miles and using over a litre of oil, it was clear that this is not the case. The engine is now in pieces and we've identified many things wrong, for example:

1) Crank oil seal looks like its been installed with a pick-axe hence the oil leak from there.

2) Crank has been lightened with what looks like a grinder, and metal shards in the bottom of sump.

3) The "shoulders" of the crank where the rod sits have been machined which has left a sharp edge, causing burring on the rods from the crank.

4) Scoring and pitting in cylinders 2&3, looks as if before forging the engine may have been stored outside and this is possibly where the pistons rusted onto the bore as they're identical in terms of position.

5) Oil control rings on pistons 1 & 3 installed incorrectly which has caused the majority of the issues.

 

Not to mention other issues for example a couple of bolts missing, 4x tappets needing to replaced, a LOT of silicone used on the sump gaskets, despite new ones being used. 

 

I have messaged the seller highlighting all of the issues to see if we can come to a reasonable solution for both parties, only to be told that everything was fine when he sold it and that the rings were installed "correctly", yet this is clearly not the case. I have dated evidence of when the engine was put into the VX and even have a video of first strike up. I've also got dated messages for the following couple of days, contacting some very well known engine builders in the Vauxhall scene to get second, third and fourth opinions  of what the issue could be and all of us thought oil control rings which we have now proved to be true. 

 

Usually in a situation like this I'd put it down to life experience and just shrug it off, however due to the cost involved I simply cannot do this. The engine cost nearly £2000, and I've had to pay for removal of the standard engine and installation of the new engine - which I knew I would have to pay anyway. But now I'm having to pay extra to have the engine out, stripped down, assessed and rebuilt properly with brand new parts , and then obviously reinstalled which as you can imagine isn't going to be cheap. 

 

 

[font="Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', NotoColorEmoji, 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Android Emoji', EmojiSymbols;"]From what I understand (currently doing first year of a law degree)[/font][font="Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', NotoColorEmoji, 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Android Emoji', EmojiSymbols;"], as a private sale (between two individuals) I don't have many [/font][font="Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', NotoColorEmoji, 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Android Emoji', EmojiSymbols;"]rights when it comes to being supplied with this pile of s**t, however if I could fundamentally prove the guy to be a trader, I can take things further with the small claims court? I have proof of over 100+ of his sales within the last 3 months, as well as countless admissions by himself of him being a breaker. I have photo evidence of everything, including letting the seller know of the oil/piston issue a couple of days after fitting[/font]

 

[font="Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', NotoColorEmoji, 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Android Emoji', EmojiSymbols;"]If anyone could advise please or recommend next steps to take, it would be most appreciated. Obviously I don't mind sharing some paper with Her Majesty's face on it in return for help, not expecting something for nothing  [/font]

 

[font="Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', NotoColorEmoji, 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Android Emoji', EmojiSymbols;"]The rear end of the VX is now looking very lonely, if anyone has either a spare LET/LEH bottom end kicking around or even a decent block and/or crank, I'd be very interested in purchasing. [/font]

 

[font="Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', NotoColorEmoji, 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Android Emoji', EmojiSymbols;"]Thanks all[/font]

[MAXR]

I would imagine you would have to get an independent engine inspection carried out by a specialist with documented evidence of his findings. The judge won't know a thing about engines, so will rely on a report carried out independently. It's a lot of time, effort & money to lay out if you can't get a compromise with the seller.

[fiveoclock]

You should have got the independent engine inspection done before you stripped the engine ie. you should have got them to strip and report on the engine. but all that costs

[JamesC]

At this stage your chances of winning this are pretty much zero, now the engine has been stripped its impossible to say what state it was in at point of purchase.  Rather than spending any more money pursuing this, you'd be wise to put it towards a know, good replacement.

[chickendippers]

The engine hasn't been stripped by me, it's been stripped by an independent Vauxhall tuner local to me - what constitutes as a "specialist"? I have pictures of the engine being stripped down piece by piece, as well as timed & dated messages sent to various other Vauxhall tuners such as RnD Motorsport, Flintshire Performance Engines etc highlighting all of the issues and possible suggestions. 

[ElizP987]

Sorry to hear of your troubles

I have a complete engine out of a VXT which has covered approx. 71k? Running perfectly prior to removal, and car was owned by a forum member? I have the service pack etc for it too

[Harry Hornet]

..go for it, the cost of a "small claims court" is marginal against your £2k loss, I suggest do it all yourself ensuring you have all the facts and figures, pictures ready in one big dossier..if i remember the small claims court starts at about £150

 

....a "small claims court" ends up with you, the breaker and a local magistrate ( acting as judge and jury).

 

... in my past experience when the "court" sits down (normally just the three of you in a room)," the defendent rarely turns up as he knows he hasnt a leg to stand on.

 

..the next stage is, is he doesnt pay up and you have to go through the court again to get the bailiffs in to get your cash

 

be prepared for all of this to take a good 12 months....so dont get heated up over it and take it calmly 1 step at a time..just make sure you have all the facts and proof of a bad bad purchase..

 

..

 

HH

[fiveoclock]

The engine hasn't been stripped by me, it's been stripped by an independent Vauxhall tuner local to me - what constitutes as a "specialist"? I have pictures of the engine being stripped down piece by piece, as well as timed & dated messages sent to various other Vauxhall tuners such as RnD Motorsport, Flintshire Performance Engines etc highlighting all of the issues and possible suggestions. 

Good. Get them to write a report and confirm that they stripped and inspected it from an assembled state and then take it to court

[chickendippers]

Thanks guys.

 

What would be the best way to approach it, as a private sale or him as being in the trade? 

Also, do I need to notify the seller of my intention to recover the costs via the courts or can I do this without notifying? 

[ayresyy]

 Did the seller put the engine number on your receipt, or can you prove the inspected engine is the one that was sold to you in some other way?

 

  If not unfortunately the seller may just claim it's not the same engine as the one he sold you.

[chickendippers]

He didn't unfortunately, but I have a lot of pictures from before the sale of when the engine was built (I use the term "built" loosely..), and pictures of it being stripped down, visually identifiable signs on both lots of images to confirm that they are the same engine. 

 

Just had confirmation from the builder too, that the pitting in the block was done before rebuild. The pitting matches the shape/size of a Z20LET oil control ring, whereas a C20LET ring (Mahle C20 pistons have been used) is completely different. 

 

Crank oil seal:

 

Metal shavings in sump, after 2 drops of the oil

 

Oil control ring from Piston 3:

[Harry Hornet]

Thanks guys.

 

What would be the best way to approach it, as a private sale or him as being in the trade? 

Also, do I need to notify the seller of my intention to recover the costs via the courts or can I do this without notifying? 

 

..what does it say on the receipt, that is who you are taking to court and sold you the engine.....just make sure their are no T&C's stating "sold as seen"... hindsight is a wonderful thing.. cash should have been held back until it had been fired up (anyone else reading this take note)

 

..yes, be squeaky clean all the way through the process, send a letter to bad man stating your plans, and copy him in when you start the claims procedure and a copy of your claim  ( perhaps correct wording suggestions from a lawyer to enure nothing ambiguous is stated), the court will like that and it will show you have tried everything you can prior to starting the action..keep all contacts noted and include them of all calls to date trying to resolve the matter and even your offer of an out of court settlement (in writing at all times)

 

 It will show you have nothing to hide and show you are the nice man (and may even get the bad man to cough up before it proceeds to far)

 

oh and even if it is a private sale, you have every right to make a claim as the name as a trader..as long as it doesnt say "seen as sold"

 

HH

Edited by Harry Hornet, 01 April 2016 - 10:32 AM.

[chickendippers]

I need to find the receipt, but I cannot remember off the top of my head it stating "sold as seen" or any variations of the kind. 

 

Will try messaging him via Facebook one more time this evening, yet if I do not receive a reasonable response I'll proceed with sending the letter (recorded delivery) and if we can't come to a satisfactory outcome I'll go through the courts.

 

Thank you

[Zoobeef]

You have no real come back regarding private sales of a whole car but parts from a car isnt the same. Document everything you've done and all the evidence you can and then put a claim in if he isn't willing to compromise in any money back. Also, we don't have a name or shame policy so you can say who you got it from. May save someone else making this mistake!

[Zoobeef]

That seals classed as fcuked. I'm not sure how you fit that and sit back happy with the job! They aren't shavings in the sump, they are called chunks!

Edited by Zoobeef, 01 April 2016 - 11:48 AM.

[chickendippers]

The seller states that the marks to the bore were not there when he had the engine, but yet more proof of his BS. The marks in the bore compare to Z20LET rings (remember I have C20 pistons/rings):

 

 

C20LET rings

 

So clearly the marks were there before rebuild!

[chickendippers]

That seals classed as fcuked. I'm not sure how you fit that and sit back happy with the job! They aren't shavings in the sump, they are called chunks!

 

Exactly, why would someone spend that amount of money on a build, to install it like a POS?!

 

C20 Pistons/rings are used, see the pics above

 

The seller is Chris Mallinson from Keighley, he doesn't use this site and is actively selling parts on Z20LET Lovers facebook group as a breaker. 

[ghand]

I found the small claims court very good. I just laid out my grievance and the guy agreed. I would be very very surprised if they didn't listen to your case and immediately award you a full refund specially with all the documented evidence you have. Oh and it was very easy and fast. .

Edited by ghand, 01 April 2016 - 12:27 PM.

[anz3001]

Go on to money claim online and it'll guide you through the process, its cheap and easy.

 

If you have sufficient evidence that a single judge finds to be enough to sway him towards you, you'll win, there are very few hard rules. The judges are super savvy so whilst he might not know about engines don't underestimate there powers of deduction. Ive been on the winning and losing sides, they'll see through bullshit.

 

You must follow due process before issuing a claim though and that is to let the defendant know a few things, i.e. what the issue is, what evidence you have and how much you want from him and why. You will need to give him adequate time to respond usually 28 days.

 

As somebody else says, you'll probably then have to go to court to actually get him to pay. 

[Harry Hornet]

 

That seals classed as fcuked. I'm not sure how you fit that and sit back happy with the job! They aren't shavings in the sump, they are called chunks!

 

Exactly, why would someone spend that amount of money on a build, to install it like a POS?!

 

C20 Pistons/rings are used, see the pics above

 

The seller is Chris Mallinson from Keighley, he doesn't use this site and is actively selling parts on Z20LET Lovers facebook group as a breaker. 

 

 

BEANO1..Good luck with process Been doing some digging around on Vauxhall sites and came up with this.......

 

...Hope you dont mind me adding some further info just in case anyone else in the future should become come into contact with the bad man

 

cmcomposites@hotmail.co.uk Postage address is Mr C Mallinson 38 Aireburn Avenue Steeton Nr Keighley BD20 6NH