513 replies to this topic

[Crabash]

We have a winner !!!

[NickB787]

Anyone got a spare 5lt plastic can I need a WI tank 🙂

[smiley]

We have a winner !!!

 

I'm not into electronics, so help me out here.

When i go through the HFS4 3.1 guide i see plenty of injector references.

I take it that is not the injector pulse signal they are talking about?

 

http://www.aquamist....HFS4w-v3.11.pdf

Edited by smiley, 25 May 2016 - 02:56 PM.

[Crabash]

It uses the inj pulse yes, map is derived from that. Wires direct into inj loom. Can also get more complicated if you want to use boost as well although I can't see the point. Just there to give the option I think.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Anyone got a spare 5lt plastic can I need a WI tank 🙂

Aquamist sell them seperate nick

[NickB787]

Any idea when the pro is out Chill?

[techieboy]

Anyone got a spare 5lt plastic can I need a WI tank 🙂

 
Here you go Nick. Even comes with a pre-filled water/meth mix for you.
 
 

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Any idea when the pro is out Chill?

The last I heard peter is testing it But he has been short on testing time and also has all the documentation together to go with it It's not just the WI system which is being added to the pro version so there is a lot going on, I think it's a good idea just to let peter get on with it on his own time he won't be rushed anyway and will want it 100% before releasing it Which we should aplaud

Edited by CHILL Gone DUTCH, 25 May 2016 - 04:39 PM.

[NickB787]

Great idea the one I had aside was white so couldn't see how much water was left😀

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Great idea the one I had aside was white so couldn't see how much water was left😀

 

http://www.aquamist-...om/water-tanks/

[Mattias]

I have offered to help many times (not just Chris I might add, not targeting you here), given advice based on what I learned. I clearly got outstanding results. But carry on, use the cheap sh*t with crappy boost based control. Follow bad info when it suits you. BTW if water will not evap at 40 deg c why would it at 60? Thats not how it works. As long as the charge is above ambient WI will cool futher. We pulled it down to 23 deg from hitting 90 deg without it turned on fyi. And Neil still aint got his finger out to even optimise it.

 

"We pulled it down to 23 deg from hitting 90 deg without it turned on" Then why use it when it doesn't even need to be turned on?

 

You are correct, but when temperature is measured about 300mm from the injector you wont't see much difference when IAT before injection is low, however if the IAT before is high you will see a big difference since the mist transforms faster in to vapor.

 

And MAP based WI is no good, air can only carry a certain amount of vapor based on air temperature and MAP based will inject same amount of water over the complete max boost rpm range. The best way should be injection based on iat before injector and air mass flow.

 

MAF or injector based input is the way to go if external controller is used.  

 

Since I don't use MAF or have a temp sensor before injector I use a 3D map with rpm at one axis and map at the other witch outputs a pwm signal to my home built pump controller.

This gives good control with the exception of differences in ambient temperature and charge cooler heat soak.

[Crabash]

You are talking about measuring in different places giving diff temps, not the truth of what temps are? I think?

Best way is based on fuel table for an external controller, unless you have a standalone ECU that can run a WM map, which you would still base on your fuel table as it removes a massive headache if you want to run and tune for meth.

 

I think what you say about the pressure based control is the same as I have said elsewhere, it is no good on SC engine as you get way more water at low rpm than you need and too little at high rpm. An not really very good on any engine.

 

And of course the gains are bigger the higher your temps are to begin with, but water mist will cool any charge by some amount unless you are using an ice box.

Edited by Crabash, 25 May 2016 - 08:11 PM.

[Doctor Ed]

you guys have E85 in the UK?

retune on that, or run flex fuel. end of discussion, theres simply no need for the complexity of WI

 

sure WI is good, works, fixes lots of problems with higher PR on less than optimal engines, but is such an old-school solution

 

E85 is the absolute best solution

[techieboy]

you guys have E85 in the UK?

 

Not any more.

[Crabash]

Yeah we don't realistically have E85 option anymore and this is not being done purely for increased det tolerance, most are interested due to the high temps seen on SC engines due to the poor inlet manifold when running above 220hp. Would be great as I know my VAG engine can run around 425hp as it is now with no other mods, just some race fuel, but at £90 for 19L it's just not going to happen.

[Mattias]

You are talking about measuring in different places giving diff temps, not the truth of what temps are? I think?

Best way is based on fuel table for an external controller, unless you have a standalone ECU that can run a WM map, which you would still base on your fuel table as it removes a massive headache if you want to run and tune for meth.

 

I think what you say about the pressure based control is the same as I have said elsewhere, it is no good on SC engine as you get way more water at low rpm than you need and too little at high rpm. An not really very good on any engine.

 

And of course the gains are bigger the higher your temps are to begin with, but water mist will cool any charge by some amount unless you are using an ice box.

 

Yes, measuring diff temps. And injecting water based on temperature from charge cooler outlet and amount of air. The second temp sensor will show when the air is saturated with vapor ie. not dropping in temp when adding more water. I will probably try this in the future but I used all my analogue inputs on my ECU so I need one more expansion module before I can test. 

 

Do you mean base it from number of fuel pulses (ie same as rpm) or volume efficiency fuel map/cylinder filling?  Using a pulse width fuel map as base does not feel optimal to me as it is different depending on target lambda. And one of the targets is to replace fuel enrichment for cylinder cooling.

 

Also I believe MAP is important as base as the differential pressure over the injector is different and then also flow at same pump pwm. I actually have a water flow sensor that I will install this weekend so I can measure how big the effect of this is since it might be important if different boost level settings are used or TPS based boost.

 

I'd like to read about your findings in the other thread mentioned here, could you post a link  

[Doctor Ed]

well that sucks

 

its gone from Germany too as of jan this year, as it lost its tax-free status, and got way too expensive to remain a viable pump fuel

[techieboy]

Yup, too expensive and 40% worse fuel economy in the bargain. All whilst eating fuel systems and killing rain forests. Proper green solution that.

[Mattias]

you guys have E85 in the UK?

retune on that, or run flex fuel. end of discussion, theres simply no need for the complexity of WI

 

sure WI is good, works, fixes lots of problems with higher PR on less than optimal engines, but is such an old-school solution

 

E85 is the absolute best solution

 

One of the reasons I didn't go for E85 is the fuel consumption on track and 36liter tank, and I'm yet to find a stainless steel larger tank

Also the so called E85 is sometimes eg. E70, at least here in Sweden so a flex-fuel sensor seems like a necessity to run E85 without worries...  

 

And also OEM:s are moving away from E85 and WI is starting to come into production cars to cope with downsizing and emissions.

 

Still E85 is great for max power and on tuning cars we tend to change oil in closer intervals removing one of the downside of E85 on production cars. 

[smiley]

 

One of the reasons I didn't go for E85 is the fuel consumption on track and 36liter tank, and I'm yet to find a stainless steel larger tank  

 

http://www.proalloy....882&id=proalloy