513 replies to this topic

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

 

and the ignition is between 23 and 26 at WOT

Edited by CHILL Gone DUTCH, 30 September 2016 - 12:54 PM.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

i think i still need more in at the high rpm range 

 

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

also i think the KR is more agreesive in the pro version i think this is becaue you can set it up to ignore the knock 

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Curious to see where it ends up.

(For the 2.0 engine the optimum ignitioon is somewhere around 24 degrees (on E85...) before it doesn't make any more power, but will check that number)

its not making any more power 

[Exmantaa]

Are you sure what you see is real knock?

 

Easy to add 50% methanol in your watertank to see what effect it has...

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

that fact its now reducing suggests what i was seeing before was real knock 

 

this has always been the million dollar question what is actual knock and false knock with the software 

my argument is if you can get rid of what is recorded you know theres no knock 

[Exmantaa]

I tried to look for explanations about the "too low ignition knock" problem and this was the most believable description I found:

Lowing your timing can cause a pre-ignition that is really not a pre-ignition. Having to little timing can cause the cylinder mixture to ignite on its own, it may not be "too early" but its not a controlled flame front, since your timing is so little so late your cylinder pressures continue to increase (piston coming up) but still no spark, it will get to the point of auto ignite, and the flame front is uncontrolled (well less controlled anyway) and scatters - this will cause somewhat of a knock.. This happens MORE on forced induction cars as cylinder pressures are much higher than NA cars - giving the mixture more of a reason to auto ignite...

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

I tried to look for explanations about the "too low ignition knock" problem and this was the most believable description I found:

Lowing your timing can cause a pre-ignition that is really not a pre-ignition. Having to little timing can cause the cylinder mixture to ignite on its own, it may not be "too early" but its not a controlled flame front, since your timing is so little so late your cylinder pressures continue to increase (piston coming up) but still no spark, it will get to the point of auto ignite, and the flame front is uncontrolled (well less controlled anyway) and scatters - this will cause somewhat of a knock.. This happens MORE on forced induction cars as cylinder pressures are much higher than NA cars - giving the mixture more of a reason to auto ignite...

 

i found this was quite common on some of the very early base maps and required rather a lot of ignition to over come it 

 

any way ive been working on the high end ignition and have found by highering the ignition further is causing more knock so have gone back to where i was beforearound the 23-26 mark

 

 

its been rather a long day but hopfully what i have now is no more than 1.5 degree of KR which is a lot better than things were and now the knock is a lot less obvious in my log files and just leaving the sharp spikes which i have always thought was false knock 

 

so feeling more confident but the fact ive not managed to get it all under 1 has bothered me, maybe it just needs more time 

Edited by CHILL Gone DUTCH, 30 September 2016 - 03:02 PM.

[siztenboots]

the flame front speed varies with the A/F ratios, and optimum timing varies accordingly

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

the flame front speed varies with the A/F ratios, and optimum timing varies accordingly

 

i have been reluctant to go to much leaner at this point but it might something i will have to try to do a little more 

 

please keep the ideas coming as where i have made good progress today  its been quite slow and ideas will only help me on my way 

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

the blue here is where i am on with the wot IGNITION 

 

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

dont get me wrong i dont think the knock is bad now and im sure others are running with a lot more than this 

 

but would like to get it all below 1

 

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

here is the last log i did and with less knock than there has ever been on the water injection map 

 

 

these are the type of short spikes which ive always considered to be false knock through bumps on the road 

but also fall in the transient between getting on WOT and cruising 

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

the flame front speed varies with the A/F ratios, and optimum timing varies accordingly

 

can you explain briefly a little more sizeten 

 

leaner  = (more or less ignition timing )

richer = (more or less ignition timing )

[Exmantaa]

Google and you'll find graphs like this:

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

So do we want flame velocity at 100% ?? Ok I've had a email back from peter and He has said I have some oem protection still switched on which is causing the heavy retardation with very little knock detected This can be switched off in pro and sounds like I'm going to need it switching off so will have to start today's work again with it switched off as I've had large retardation despite the lower levels of knock

[Nev]

So do we want flame velocity at 100% ??  

 

Yes if you want max power, no if you want to keep EGTs and exhaust valves temps etc from getting very high and (very considerably) reducing engine life expectancy.  

Edited by Nev, 01 October 2016 - 07:06 AM.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

My issue was with some of the oem protection which was switched on in the pro software

 

power run 

 

 

knock and ignition now holds on 

 

 

yesterday i was getting a lot of unnecessary retardation caused by some oem protection 

 

 

the results this morning also gave more consistent results so thumbs up and move on to fine tuning for the water ignition 

 

[jbt]

Has anyone had good results injecting water pre supercharger to lower the IAT?

I thinking about it as I'm already using e85 and I don't have any problems with knock. I just want to get the IAT down.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Has anyone had good results injecting water pre supercharger to lower the IAT?

I thinking about it as I'm already using e85 and I don't have any problems with knock. I just want to get the IAT down.

 

i think peter was injecting pre charger 

and he indicated he had good results but last time a spoke with him he was worried about what would happen to the rotors