62 replies to this topic

[myles]

Wham bars - with added fillings and shards of tooth.

[gaffer1986]

I take that as a yes then.. Lol.

[Captain Vimes]

You know you just need a SC with standard 5 speed box...

[gaffer1986]

Yeah, it in tempting but I think I miss revving the heck out of my "slow" NA

[techieboy]

You're biggest problem with an SC is not hitting the (extended) rev limiter. It's still delivering power at the rev limit unlike the NA which gave up at 6k rpm.

[james_ly]

Maybe worth getting a car with the 2.4 Manifold and remap to increase rev limit?

[gaffer1986]

Double valve springs on a supercharged car?

[techieboy]

Depends on where you set the rev limit. Upgraded springs (not necessarily double) are a good idea for anything over 7k rpm on any Z22SE. That said, mine has got standard springs and has had a 7250rpm limit for years without any issue. Though I always flinch and think I really must fit those springs that have been in the garage for years, whenever I encounter the limiter.  

[Captain Vimes]

Here's a graph of NA vs SC. Look at how the torque on the NA peaks at 4k rpm and then tails off. This is how it feels too - it has good midrange but feels flat when revved out.

To get something that feels exciting you want peak torque higher up the rpm range. It needs cams, head work, inlet (including tb/itb's) and exhaust changes to change the shape of the torque curve. There's no cheap fix.

In comparison, to SC has a flat torque curve so feels more willing to spin to the red line without all the other changes needed.

Best bet is to get out in some different cars and decide what you like.

[gaffer1986]

Can you get OBD tuner with 16bit mapping on an NA then and play with settings? Or is this just for supercharged cars.

 

I've been in two supercharged cars, two NAs and no ITBs. 

 

Supercharged: Incredibly quick below 60mph! Faster than a Z4M. Courtney map not as good as the one Joe uses. It's night and day.

NA: Quick enough on the road and technical circuits (Cadwell Park)

ITB: Unicorn.

 

At the moment I think I don't want a car that is as quick as the supercharged 2.2 so I'm steering towards an NA with the view to increasing power at a later date if I feel the need. In the long run it's more expensive as Joe's car represents very good value for money but I think I will enjoy it more this way. ITBs were a nice thought because I love cars that rev.

[gaffer1986]

The supercharged car certainly feels quicker than that graph suggests. Feels like 500bhp below 60mph. But that's down to lack of weight. Less is more.

[The Batman]

I problem with Itbs is you need to rebuild the engine to get good power otherwise you're only looking at 155 but rebuilt engine with 4.17 and exhaust would be really good fun

[The Batman]

Oh and Obdtuners works well on Na too But you can't use it with itbs

[gaffer1986]

Oh and Obdtuners works well on Na too But you can't use it with itbs

 

Thanks

 

How do you get your supercharged cars running so smoothly, is it a base map or do you get them on a rolling road?

 

Also, is OBDTuners what people also people call Dutch software?

[smiley]

They are all smooth (and should be) The SC pully is hooked up to the crankshaft, hence the liniar line.

You should be able to put a ruler next to it (if all is setup correctly)

Edited by smiley, 01 June 2016 - 04:32 PM.

[gaffer1986]

I don't think they're all as smooth, especially cold start, Joe's car started like a regular engine.

[smiley]

Ah, i thought you meant the power line.

 

[jonnyboy]

CS map runs like a dog cold the ODB tuner map is actually better than the original mapping for the car when its standard. They normally hate been hot started and that goes with the ODB Tuner.

[siztenboots]

Here's a graph of NA vs SC. Look at how the torque on the NA peaks at 4k rpm and then tails off. This is how it feels too - it has good midrange but feels flat when revved out.

To get something that feels exciting you want peak torque higher up the rpm range. It needs cams, head work, inlet (including tb/itb's) and exhaust changes to change the shape of the torque curve. There's no cheap fix.

In comparison, to SC has a flat torque curve so feels more willing to spin to the red line without all the other changes needed.

Best bet is to get out in some different cars and decide what you like.

 

 

275Nm torque , is about 200 ft.lbs , if that is all you want , then I can move torque line and have a completely flat line if so desired , but this is my new 260 pack on a standard turbo.  ( figures shown at the wheels ). Still a bit more efficiency to add, but most important is throttle response and on the road useability.

 

 

[gaffer1986]

CS map runs like a dog cold the ODB tuner map is actually better than the original mapping for the car when its standard. They normally hate been hot started and that goes with the ODB Tuner.

So you can fit an OBD tuner to an NA? If you then wanted to supercharge it would you have to by a different OBD tuner?