43 replies to this topic

[Jocke_D]

Just saw the new TG with a "shootout of the lightweights". Really disappointed that they didn't match the Ariel against the Radical etc but was thinking about the Zenos they focused on. Does anyone have any input, has anyone tested it etc?

 

It looks to me like a modern version of the VX, minus windows and roof of course, how come they have a windscreen but no roof. Strange...

 

http://www.zenoscars.com/

 

[Mattyboi]

I like them alot. I inquired about buying one but was put off by it not having a roof as I drive my VX alot in winter. They said there will be a targa version with doors and luggage space at some point in the future. I`ve followed a few on track and they as quick, plus the body work is all small panels so easy to replace, the dash is very nice and they will be easy to modify.

 

Since then I've changed my mind on if i`d buy one or not simply because a SC`d VX would be as fast, if not faster, and would cost half of a base spec Zenos. It would prob make you money in the long run to.

[SteveA]

Ariel vs Radical was done on Fifth Gear a while back.

 

 

IMO the overall look of the Zenos isn't right. The engineering is great but they should have spent a few more quid on a bodywork designer.

Edited by SteveA, 30 June 2016 - 09:18 AM.

[fiveoclock]

I raced against one at Silverstone that was built by the factory as a race car and was supported at the event by the factory. In lap 2 it expired in a cloud of steam and plss. 

[fezzasus]

I raced against one at Silverstone that was built by the factory as a race car and was supported at the event by the factory. In lap 2 it expired in a cloud of steam and plss. 

 

That's more to do with Ford's EcoBoost than the quality of the Zenos chassis design.

[SteveA]

I know the Vuhl is double the price but that's more to do with engine and chassis. Look what a bit more bodywork design money can get you;

 

 

Zenos would have sold in the thousands if they had this styling. The 05RR version is absolutely stunning;

 

http://www.pistonhea...-of-speed/34448

Edited by SteveA, 30 June 2016 - 09:33 AM.

[fiveoclock]

 

I raced against one at Silverstone that was built by the factory as a race car and was supported at the event by the factory. In lap 2 it expired in a cloud of steam and plss. 

 

That's more to do with Ford's EcoBoost than the quality of the Zenos chassis design.

 

No it isnt. The engine was fine. It suggests it wasnt put together right. Thats a reflection on the build quality. It was driven by an experienced driver from the Caterham world who has had wins. In qualifying it was beaten by, amongst others, a Saxo, 2 E36 BMW's and a Fiesta and finished last in its class. It was also only .8 of a second in front of a VX with vastly inferior power on a power circuit. This suggests either a chassis problem or a set up problem, all a reflection, again, on the factory

[techieboy]

I thought it looked great in pictures but when I went up to Bedford Autodrome for a test drive and saw it in the flesh, it just looked a little bit weird. Think the rear half of it is too bulky and didn't look very well put together although you can almost forgive it with the easily removable/replaceable panels. It's actually much smaller than I expected but I can't be doing with no doors and climbing over the bodywork/standing on the seats/etc. It drove okay (the E10 base version without screen) but didn't feel particularly special in the three laps we got (and actually felt a bit ragged in the handling dept) and wasn't in the same league as my VX performance wise. On the bright side, it could be used at Bedford with it's noise limits without problem. There was an E10S there with the windscreen but I didn't hang around long enough to try it. There's apparently some kind of emergency roof/cover thing but haven't seen it and can only imagine it looks awful in use.    I like the concept of it and will definitely have another look when the coupe type model comes along but in it's current guise, it's too compromised to really use, unless you have a trailer or are just going out for a few hours with a passenger. Definitely no 3 day trips to Zandvoort, that's for sure. All in all, it's a decent first attempt at a reasonable cost but not for me. ETA: Oh and it had what looked like a VX Regal exhaust on it.

Edited by techieboy, 30 June 2016 - 02:04 PM.

[techieboy]

emergency roof/cover thing but haven't seen it and can only imagine it looks awful in use.

 
As suspected
 

[Nev]

Ariel vs Radical was done on Fifth Gear a while back.

 

 

£ 76,000 for a Radical SR3 - holy cow!! For £20,000 you could get one of these instead and it would be a lot faster (on a track anyway, not sure about road):

 

Edited by Nev, 30 June 2016 - 10:31 AM.

[SteveA]

You can't compare a car designed to be street legal to a full on racecar, the two will always be worlds apart. Spire GT-3's are more comparable both in lap time and price to a Radical PR6.

[fezzasus]

 

 

I raced against one at Silverstone that was built by the factory as a race car and was supported at the event by the factory. In lap 2 it expired in a cloud of steam and plss. 

 

That's more to do with Ford's EcoBoost than the quality of the Zenos chassis design.

 

No it isnt. The engine was fine. It suggests it wasnt put together right. Thats a reflection on the build quality. It was driven by an experienced driver from the Caterham world who has had wins. In qualifying it was beaten by, amongst others, a Saxo, 2 E36 BMW's and a Fiesta and finished last in its class. It was also only .8 of a second in front of a VX with vastly inferior power on a power circuit. This suggests either a chassis problem or a set up problem, all a reflection, again, on the factory

 

So explain where the steam came from if the engine isn't at fault?

[Nev]

You can't compare a car designed to be street legal to a full on racecar, the two will always be worlds apart. Spire GT-3's are more comparable both in lap time and price to a Radical PR6.

 

FYI, quite a few Spire GT3 are street legal, hence the 2 are comparable. However they seem to be a very different on price (and effectiveness).

 

I expect it would only add a handful of Kg and some time to make that particular car street legal.

 

 

Edited by Nev, 30 June 2016 - 12:29 PM.

[Nev]

 

 

 

I raced against one at Silverstone that was built by the factory as a race car and was supported at the event by the factory. In lap 2 it expired in a cloud of steam and plss. 

 

That's more to do with Ford's EcoBoost than the quality of the Zenos chassis design.

 

No it isnt. The engine was fine. It suggests it wasnt put together right. Thats a reflection on the build quality. It was driven by an experienced driver from the Caterham world who has had wins. In qualifying it was beaten by, amongst others, a Saxo, 2 E36 BMW's and a Fiesta and finished last in its class. It was also only .8 of a second in front of a VX with vastly inferior power on a power circuit. This suggests either a chassis problem or a set up problem, all a reflection, again, on the factory

 

So explain where the steam came from if the engine isn't at fault?

 

 

I would imagine the steam most likely came from any number of joiners/pipes/radiators connecting the engine to the rest of the car's water sub-systems.

 

It's fairly rare for an engine to start squirting water out of it when you think about it (with the exception of water pumps), its usually some other external part that fails.  

Edited by Nev, 30 June 2016 - 12:35 PM.

[Nev]

.

Edited by Nev, 30 June 2016 - 12:26 PM.

[SteveA]

FYI, quite a few Spire GT3 are street legal, hence the 2 are comparable. However they seem to be a very different on price (and effectiveness).

 

I expect it would only add a handful of Kg and some time to make that particular car street legal.

 

 

 

 

I can't seem to find a GT3 for less than £22K which is pretty much the same as a PR6 (you are paying the extra for a premium product, VX220/Elise, Westfield/Caterham) . Is the linked one in the video road legal?

 

This speaks volumes

 

http://www.750mc.co....b5bd38353d9.pdf

 

 

Edited by SteveA, 30 June 2016 - 12:49 PM.

[fezzasus]

 

 

 

 

I raced against one at Silverstone that was built by the factory as a race car and was supported at the event by the factory. In lap 2 it expired in a cloud of steam and plss. 

 

That's more to do with Ford's EcoBoost than the quality of the Zenos chassis design.

 

No it isnt. The engine was fine. It suggests it wasnt put together right. Thats a reflection on the build quality. It was driven by an experienced driver from the Caterham world who has had wins. In qualifying it was beaten by, amongst others, a Saxo, 2 E36 BMW's and a Fiesta and finished last in its class. It was also only .8 of a second in front of a VX with vastly inferior power on a power circuit. This suggests either a chassis problem or a set up problem, all a reflection, again, on the factory

 

So explain where the steam came from if the engine isn't at fault?

 

 

I would imagine the steam most likely came from any number of joiners/pipes/radiators connecting the engine to the rest of the car's water sub-systems.

 

It's fairly rare for an engine to start squirting water out of it when you think about it (with the exception of water pumps), its usually some other external part that fails.  

 

 

My point was that there are a lot of suppliers involved in any car production and Zenos is no different. Condemning a car for a coolant failure is pretty short sighted as it could have been a very simple fix or a 3rd party supplier.

 

I'm sure Lotus had plenty of development mules that expired when they developed the Elise too. The fact that they're out running cars and seeing how competitive they are is good news, it will only lead to a better car in the long run.

[Nev]

 

FYI, quite a few Spire GT3 are street legal, hence the 2 are comparable. However they seem to be a very different on price (and effectiveness).

 

I expect it would only add a handful of Kg and some time to make that particular car street legal.

 

 

 

 

I can't seem to find a GT3 for less than £22K which is pretty much the same as a PR6 (you are paying the extra for a premium product, VX220/Elise, Westfield/Caterham) . Is the linked one in the video road legal?

 

 

Yes, their prices have shot up over the last 2 years or so as they win most of the RGB and bikesports races and people are selling their Radicals etc to buy them (once they realise their cost and speed advantage). Unusually for any car, their re-sale/second hand price is greater than their initial build/parts cost - that says something special about them.

 

You can build your own basic kit with an R1 engine for about 10k I think. To make it competitive you'd probably need to spend another 5 to 10k and really know what the best practice is to squeeze the best out of them etc. People like Tim Gray and Oliver Hewitt etc have pulverised the Radicals in RGB and Bikesports classes if you take a look.

 

You only have to watch that 1m 01s lap video of Castle Combe to realise they are the fastest things track cars on 4 wheels that the average man can buy, only 1.5 seconds short of the all time lap record in a very expensive F3 car...

 

Here is Oli Hewitt in his GT3 (RGB class) win the other day at Castle Combe, great fun and properly fast racing. I've never seen anything go as fast as these things on track for sure (including all VX220, Ultima, Nobles etc). If I were to ever be tempted to get into racing, one of the Disclock BEC classes would be where I'd aim. I'd have to get a job though

 

 

PS: I'm fairly sure neither cars in the 2 videos I've posted is street legal. However, it wouldn't take much to get through IVA.

 

Edited by Nev, 30 June 2016 - 01:18 PM.

[SteveA]

The last three Bike sports races all podium positions went to Radicals.

 

That video isn't a Spire, It's an MC53 according to the info on youtube. Not sure what one of those is or how much they cost.

 

 

edit - apologies the third last race a Spire was on the bottom step of the podium.

 

Just had a look and a proven GT3 capable of winning is circa £45k (the car that did the 1:01 lap you posted)

 

https://www.racecars...6153/spire-gt-3

 

Here is Tim Grays car you mentioned

 

https://www.racecars...6288/spire-gt-3

 

Edited by SteveA, 30 June 2016 - 01:35 PM.

[fiveoclock]

 

 

I raced against one at Silverstone that was built by the factory as a race car and was supported at the event by the factory. In lap 2 it expired in a cloud of steam and plss. 

  That's more to do with Ford's EcoBoost than the quality of the Zenos chassis design.  

No it isnt. The engine was fine. It suggests it wasnt put together right. Thats a reflection on the build quality. It was driven by an experienced driver from the Caterham world who has had wins. In qualifying it was beaten by, amongst others, a Saxo, 2 E36 BMW's and a Fiesta and finished last in its class. It was also only .8 of a second in front of a VX with vastly inferior power on a power circuit. This suggests either a chassis problem or a set up problem, all a reflection, again, on the factory  

So explain where the steam came from if the engine isn't at fault?

A hose failing or the way its been fitted. The radiator failing or the way it's been fitted. The expansion tank failing or the way it's been fitted. The expansion tank cap. Plastic components in the cooling system. Any of these being inferior or bad race prep involving any of these.

Edited by fiveoclock, 30 June 2016 - 01:41 PM.