48 replies to this topic

[Mattias]

 

I'm also seeing the same issue as you described. What I did eventually find out is that I still had some air in the rad slowing up the flow. It's worth running the car up to temp and loosening the rad bleed nipple and allowing lots to flow out as air periodically still vents out. Can take some time. Will watch this tread as still stays hot when on track and back in the pits on tickover stays at 105 unless revved.

That's nothing to worry about! I wouldn't (and don't) worry about seeing 105 degrees whilst moving. When it's static the engine isn't under nearly as much load.

 

 

The problem is that if you shut down at 105C after a track session without sufficient after shut down cooling is that the temps can go way to high causing a warped head or cracks.

That is the bad thing with alu, it gets exponentially weaker with temperature. So running a engine cooler is better but you do get some increased friction that reduce efficiency...

 

And the temps shouldn't stay static at 105C if not under high load,  then the cooling isn't sufficient.

[Mattias]

LOL, programmable mapping tables for fan duty cycle - whatever next !

 

Nice solution though.

 

That's the beauty of a good after market ECU, you can input and output any kind of signal to control all sort of devices

[Mattias]

Time for a little update after last weekends trackday. It wasn't the best summer weather so wouldn't call the results conclusive yet. Outside temp was about 17C. 

 

Highest temp I reached on track was 102C and it cooled of as soon as I let of the pace a bit so seems to be a good improvement.

The best part is after shutting down in the pit without letting it run for a bit as before. I can enjoy hearing my fan and pump slowing down as the engine gets cooled down in a couple of minutes. 

And the now turbo gets some cooling flow even at idle and after shut down so that also feels comforting

 

Probably adding an oil cooler will seal the deal for me. 

 

On the street I can leave it running on idle forever without hitting 90deg and the fan just whispers at low speed if temps try to rise

 

The only thing I'm worried about is the durability of the davies craig pump. I get the feeling after reading the instructions, some forums and mailing with their support that it's not the best pump durability wise. Their own pump controller normally turns the pump on and of in periods of time probably to extend life span. But to me that sounds bad for the engine in terms of thermal stress from oscillating temps in the cylinder head. 

So time will tell and if it turns out it's not up to the job I will replace it with an OEM electric cooling pump that is becoming more and more common on modern engines. 

 

 

[Captain Vimes]

Instead of adding an oil cooler, have you thought about adding an extra water rad to help bring water temps down and in turn oil temp?

[Bargi]

Where exactally did you fit the pump? Is it just in-line going to the radiator? My car is always really slow to cool down after coming in from track. Find reving it up to 1500-2000rpm helps a bit but not a great amount

[Mattias]

Instead of adding an oil cooler, have you thought about adding an extra water rad to help bring water temps down and in turn oil temp?

 

Yes, that is why I removed the hose from the heater and tested a few laps with the heater on fully. It did help a little but not enough to keep the temps steady during several hot laps in a row.

[Mattias]

Where exactally did you fit the pump? Is it just in-line going to the radiator? My car is always really slow to cool down after coming in from track. Find reving it up to 1500-2000rpm helps a bit but not a great amount

 

Look at page one for pictures, its under the crashbox by the anti roll bar on the cold side as recommended by davies craig.

 

I believe the base problem is that our water pump is not ment to pump water around a whole car, the pressure drop must be huge with almost 8m tubing and a lot of bends compared to an Astra.  

[Mattias]

Here is the current layout:

 

[Bargi]

What happens if fails? Does it just spin freely or does it become a restriction? Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk

[Mattias]

What happens if fails? Does it just spin freely or does it become a restriction? Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk

 

It's a volute/turbine type pump so it doesn't restrict much, I only run it on low rpm, high temp, and after shutdown. So it's off on highway driving and temp is on solid 80C:ish so not a problem.

[Bargi]

which pump did you go for? Guessing the EWP150?

[Mattias]

which pump did you go for? Guessing the EWP150?

 

EWP80 so I have to keep the belt driven pump also. But I wouldn't trust the davis craig pumps enough to remove it.

 

I will probably change to a Volvo oem cooling pump from Pierburg in the future that flows 150L/min and is well tested for durability.

[Bargi]

 

which pump did you go for? Guessing the EWP150?

 

EWP80 so I have to keep the belt driven pump also. But I wouldn't trust the davis craig pumps enough to remove it.

 

I will probably change to a Volvo oem cooling pump from Pierburg in the future that flows 150L/min and is well tested for durability.

 

 

can you put up a link to the pump you would use

[Mattias]

 

 

which pump did you go for? Guessing the EWP150?

 

EWP80 so I have to keep the belt driven pump also. But I wouldn't trust the davis craig pumps enough to remove it.

 

I will probably change to a Volvo oem cooling pump from Pierburg in the future that flows 150L/min and is well tested for durability.

 

 

can you put up a link to the pump you would use

 

 

It has recently hit the market in our 4-cyl VEA petrol engines, I will check the part number tomorrow.

[siztenboots]

the picture you have there , did you remove the small electric water pump for the turbo?

 

[Mattias]

the picture you have there , did you remove the small electric water pump for the turbo?

 

 

Well I also always thought it was for cooling the turbo after shutdown. But after tracing all hoses it shows that that pump only removes the worst heat soak from the cylinder head by circulating the water to the heater matrix... So shutting down with hot turbo is not the best thing to do. However the water will self circulate a little by the heat.

 

With my current setup I can see circulation from the turbo return hose after shutdown with 70% pump duty.

[siztenboots]

I too assumed it ran water through the CHRA on the turbo.

[chris]

Do you estimate the loss of efficiency of your cooling circuit linked to the air water exchanger of your charge cooler  ?

 

Edited by chris, 01 September 2016 - 05:57 PM.

[Mattias]

Do you estimate the loss of efficiency of your cooling circuit linked to the air water exchanger of your charge cooler  ?

 

 

I do think that is a big part of the problem in terms of temperature, one part is reduced airflow and the other the increased temperature of the cooling air. Only way to know how much would be to measure the air temp in front of both radiators.

 

But removing the pre-rad isn't an option, but I'm considering removing the oil cooler and only use an air cooled oil-cooler in the left ear and moving the air filter to the right side.

[Nev]

I would not recommend getting rid of your oil/water matrix. Simply add more cooling to the oil circuit, but don't take stuff away. That thing will help reduce your oil temps (admittedly at the expense of your water system). Having over hot oil is more dangerous than over hot water.