28 replies to this topic

[Gadget2]

I hope I'm wrong but I've read that new MoT regs coming in May has HID lamps that have been retro fitted will result in a fail even if the pattern is correct.

Since my VX is fitted with HID main beam, and is absolutely useless with the standard halogen this means either I fit halogen just to pass the test and refit my HID's (will this make me illegal?) afterwards, or just not go out at night. 

[Tareim]

it's going to be a tough one, some will fail it on that you have retro fitted bulbs where halogens once were, others will pass it as it will come down as interpretation of the wording, as our cars have projector units they should in theory be ok as they don't scatter the light everywhere like the old style halogen reflector lenses

[gaffer1986]

I find my uprated standard bulbs work better than the HIDs.

[Di3sel]

I find my uprated standard bulbs work better than the HIDs.

 

Apologies for the off-topic, but which bulbs are you using?

Cheers.

[gaffer1986]

I can't remember. The bulbs that got the best results on auto express.

[H1 HWK]

I tried Osram night breakers (which are supposed to be good for halogens), but they wer no where near as good as HIDs for me. I only use them on low beam. Have some shitty Chinese leds I tried last year for main beams but they will be replaced with halogens before the car goes back on the road. Will be MOTing next month....can anyone confirm if the new rules come in from May as my normal place is happy with the HIDs, but dont want to put them in a position to have to fail it because of new rules in place, Thanks

[Strugs]

Yes, it's May, and the exact failure is "Light source and lamp not compatible".

 

The accompanying guidance states: "Some vehicles may be fitted with High Intensity Discharge (HID) headlamps. It is not permitted to convert existing halogen headlamp units for use with HID bulbs. If it is clear that such a conversion has been carried out, rather than replacing the entire unit with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs, the headlamp should be rejected".

 

Personally, and famous last words here, I think we would probably get away with it.. I agree with Tareim above - I think with the projector lenses we won't fall foul of "light source and lamp not compatible". I also hold the (slightly risky) assumption that, to the majority of MOT testers, it may not be "clear that such a conversion has been carried out.."

 

Fingers crossed anyway!  

[Tareim]

I've got my MOT due in april (1st one with HID swap) so if it passes then I will ask if it's still going to pass the following year in that config and report back (unless someone else can sooner), don't want to ask before hand in case they decided to fail it as a retrofit as they may not know

[oblomov]

I've got my MOT due in april (1st one with HID swap) so if it passes then I will ask if it's still going to pass the following year in that config and report back (unless someone else can sooner), don't want to ask before hand in case they decided to fail it as a retrofit as they may not know

 

So, instead of waiting till the issue is clarified elsewhere (which it inevitably will be) you're going to warn them in advance that your car will perhaps be a fail next time?  

Edited by oblomov, 07 March 2018 - 07:22 PM.

[Tareim]

 

I've got my MOT due in april (1st one with HID swap) so if it passes then I will ask if it's still going to pass the following year in that config and report back (unless someone else can sooner), don't want to ask before hand in case they decided to fail it as a retrofit as they may not know

 

So, instead of waiting till the issue is clarified elsewhere (which it inevitably will be) you're going to warn them in advance that your car will perhaps be a fail next time?  

 

 

if it would be a fail next time (which we don't know yet) then it'll give me a year to be prepared to swap the lights around and also let the community know before theirs go in

[Madmitch]

I suspect that the problem relates to the legal requirement to have self levelling built into the headlights or the vehicle to avoid dazzle, see below.

 

    What is examined at the NCT? Roadworthiness testing measures are in place to ensure that the lighting system in a vehicle is in full working order and correctly aligned for the safe performance of the vehicle. Under the European Roadworthiness Testing Directive (2009/40/EC), the National Car Testing Service (NCTS) is required to examine the condition and aim of headlights. This requirement is included in the Road Traffic (National Car Test) Regulations 2014 and is reflected in the NCT Manual. In relation to HID lights specifically, the NCTS checks that:
 
 A HID bulb, where fitted, is compatible with the headlamp.   The HID headlight assembly (i.e. headlamp and bulb) is fitted with a functioning headlamp levelling system, either manual or automatic. If the vehicle has self-levelling built in to the suspension then this can be considered to fulfil the function of headlamp self-levelling.  The headlamp cleaning device, where fitted, is operating correctly.

[vocky]

aftermarket HIDs are easily recognised by the extra wiring, so will most likely be an instant fail

[fiveoclock]

Yes, it's May, and the exact failure is "Light source and lamp not compatible".

 

The accompanying guidance states: "Some vehicles may be fitted with High Intensity Discharge (HID) headlamps. It is not permitted to convert existing halogen headlamp units for use with HID bulbs. If it is clear that such a conversion has been carried out, rather than replacing the entire unit with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs, the headlamp should be rejected".

 

Personally, and famous last words here, I think we would probably get away with it.. I agree with Tareim above - I think with the projector lenses we won't fall foul of "light source and lamp not compatible". I also hold the (slightly risky) assumption that, to the majority of MOT testers, it may not be "clear that such a conversion has been carried out.."

 

Fingers crossed anyway!  

So it only relates to HID? The way forward is LED then. I have good quality LED fitted in my Jeep and they are fantastic, better than any HID I've ever had. I tried some cheaper, probably Chinese LED's and they were rubbish and got very hot. They had a sort of concertina metal mesh cooling system on the back (probably cheap) whereas the better quality ones have a small fan in the back (probably not so cheap)

Edited by fiveoclock, 08 March 2018 - 09:31 AM.

[Strugs]

 

 

I've got my MOT due in april (1st one with HID swap) so if it passes then I will ask if it's still going to pass the following year in that config and report back (unless someone else can sooner), don't want to ask before hand in case they decided to fail it as a retrofit as they may not know

 

So, instead of waiting till the issue is clarified elsewhere (which it inevitably will be) you're going to warn them in advance that your car will perhaps be a fail next time?  

 

 

if it would be a fail next time (which we don't know yet) then it'll give me a year to be prepared to swap the lights around and also let the community know before theirs go in

 

 

I think I'm with oblomov.. I'd keep schtum!  

[Strugs]

I suspect that the problem relates to the legal requirement to have self levelling built into the headlights or the vehicle to avoid dazzle, see below.

 

    What is examined at the NCT? Roadworthiness testing measures are in place to ensure that the lighting system in a vehicle is in full working order and correctly aligned for the safe performance of the vehicle. Under the European Roadworthiness Testing Directive (2009/40/EC), the National Car Testing Service (NCTS) is required to examine the condition and aim of headlights. This requirement is included in the Road Traffic (National Car Test) Regulations 2014 and is reflected in the NCT Manual. In relation to HID lights specifically, the NCTS checks that:
 
 A HID bulb, where fitted, is compatible with the headlamp.   The HID headlight assembly (i.e. headlamp and bulb) is fitted with a functioning headlamp levelling system, either manual or automatic. If the vehicle has self-levelling built in to the suspension then this can be considered to fulfil the function of headlamp self-levelling.  The headlamp cleaning device, where fitted, is operating correctly.

 

It's more around muppets fitting HID bulbs to non-projector headlights which cause a dazzling light scatter..

[Strugs]

aftermarket HIDs are easily recognised by the extra wiring, so will most likely be an instant fail

 

What would the MOT tester be looking for under the (front) bonnet (genuine question! Not being facetious.. for a change!)?  

[fiveoclock]

 

aftermarket HIDs are easily recognised by the extra wiring, so will most likely be an instant fail

 

What would the MOT tester be looking for under the (front) bonnet (genuine question! Not being facetious.. for a change!)?  

 

Amongst other things ensuring the battery is secured properly

[Strugs]

 

Yes, it's May, and the exact failure is "Light source and lamp not compatible".

 

The accompanying guidance states: "Some vehicles may be fitted with High Intensity Discharge (HID) headlamps. It is not permitted to convert existing halogen headlamp units for use with HID bulbs. If it is clear that such a conversion has been carried out, rather than replacing the entire unit with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs, the headlamp should be rejected".

 

Personally, and famous last words here, I think we would probably get away with it.. I agree with Tareim above - I think with the projector lenses we won't fall foul of "light source and lamp not compatible". I also hold the (slightly risky) assumption that, to the majority of MOT testers, it may not be "clear that such a conversion has been carried out.."

 

Fingers crossed anyway!  

So it only relates to HID? The way forward is LED then. I have good quality LED fitted in my Jeep and they are fantastic, better than any HID I've ever had. I tried some cheaper, probably Chinese LED's and they were rubbish and got very hot. They had a sort of concertina metal mesh cooling system on the back (probably cheap) whereas the better quality ones have a small fan in the back (probably not so cheap)

 

 

I'd be game for giving LEDs a go. Where did you get your current ones from (what brand etc.)? Would the need for having a fan make it a bit tight for space in a VX?  

[Wolfstone]

 

aftermarket HIDs are easily recognised by the extra wiring, so will most likely be an instant fail

  What would the MOT tester be looking for under the (front) bonnet (genuine question! Not being facetious.. for a change!)?    

Amongst other things ensuring the battery is secured properly

I don't think that has ever been checked in 11 years on my MoT on the VX. Even if they've opened the bonnet they've never removed the washer bottle to check the battery.

[vocky]

 

aftermarket HIDs are easily recognised by the extra wiring, so will most likely be an instant fail

 

What would the MOT tester be looking for under the (front) bonnet (genuine question! Not being facetious.. for a change!)?  

 

 

OEM Xenon lights normally have the ignitors attached to the headlight on moulded fixings, aftermarket HIDs have the ignitors floating about or attached to the bodywork with tape or cable ties.

 

Pretty easy to spot non OEM stuff