10 replies to this topic

[Mr Apex]

I used to own an S1 Elise 135 Sport with a K series engine. I loved that engine - so much character and fizz. I've got an SC 2.2 now and, although it goes like stink, the engine always sounds thrashy and reluctant. I had a quick play with an Elise yesterday and it reminded me how good that K series was. So why is there such a huge difference in character between different 4 pot 16 valve motors? It must be something to do with inertia, balance shafts, flywheel weight etc? 

 

 

[Tony H]

I know what you mean I have a 2.2 SC and a 118hp rover. The 2.2 feels very lazy in comparison despite the extra power, balance delete and lightened flywheel.

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

[Rosssco]

You can add (subtract?) a lighter flywheel, balancer delete etc. which helps a bit. I've recently switched to a 2.0L engine in the hope that also helps response (shorter stroke and slightly lighter crank).

 

Also, if you have the likes of OBD-Tuner, you can alter the throttle calibration and adjust fuel and ignition timing (assuming you know what you're doing) to optimise response.

 

Ultimately these are all just tweaks, and the fundamental design of the engine will determine how well it reacts. Plus you are comparing a SC'ed engine to a NA engine - that an instant disadvantage generally.

[vocky]

my mate had an Elise 160 thingy and it was as quick as my 218bhp vx, what I noticed was that the Elise gearing was much better suited to the characteristics of the K series engine than the vx220 F23 was to the z22se engine.

 

That moment cost me dearly, it was the start of my long search for the perfect gearbox. Which ended up being the Alfa Romeo Pro Drive M32 gearbox with a Corsa vxr 6th gear.

 

Now my engine is perfectly matched to it's gearbox

[jonnyboy]

The K series is the best sounding 4 pot there is. They get a bad rep over the heads gaskets but in truth it's one of the best engines out there. Power output for its weight and size is superb and they will even take an SC or turbo.

For me I've said many times and still stand by the fact that the early base model Elise S2 is Lotus cars finest moment. The 2.2 VX is joint mind but that early S2 with the short ratio box in it is just everything a Lotus should really be. Light modestly powered and nimble. We don't get that many in these days sadly but a couple of highlights from my selling these cars has been drivibg base k series cars back through the cairngormes. I really don't think that dynamically Lotus have ever bettered what came out of the factory in the early 2000s.

Edited by jonnyboy, 28 May 2018 - 07:57 PM.

[Mr Apex]

The SC 2.2 is a great motor - feels like a much bigger engine than it is and makes the car into a proper weapon - but I wonder what a really well sorted K series with SC would be like.

The S2 135 Sport was probably the best Elise ever built. My S1 had the quick rack and close ratio box and it did feel like a proper racer, but the S2 was a touch more hardcore. Would love to own one of those at some point.

[Mattyboi]

but that early S2 with the short ratio box in it is just everything a Lotus should really be..

 

The gearbox is key I think. A 111S with the normal gearbox is a (relative) pain to drive, its a gear higher then I am in the VX all the time. That makes it abit harder to keep on the boil because of the VVTI (or whatever its called on a K series). The VX is much easier to drive fast on a B road because of the mid range, the Elise is more fun ultimately but it soon wears off trying to keep it on the boil.

 

My friend has a 111S and on track and on road they are equally as fast*, its just different driving styles. You pays your money.......

 

 

*SC'd now so he's not got a chance now! hahah!
 

[Rosssco]

The 2.2 GM engine is definitely 'effective' (I'd probably pick one over the Supercharged Toyota engines for better mid-range and general grunt), but stifle the SC intake noise and they are a pretty characterless engine tbh.. Not terrible, just  fast but kinda 'meh'..

[jonnyboy]

but that early S2 with the short ratio box in it is just everything a Lotus should really be..

The gearbox is key I think. A 111S with the normal gearbox is a (relative) pain to drive, its a gear higher then I am in the VX all the time. That makes it abit harder to keep on the boil because of the VVTI (or whatever its called on a K series). The VX is much easier to drive fast on a B road because of the mid range, the Elise is more fun ultimately but it soon wears off trying to keep it on the boil.

My friend has a 111S and on track and on road they are equally as fast*, its just different driving styles. You pays your money.......


*SC'd now so he's not got a chance now! hahah!

Yep I'm always trying to show people the light on that one. People just always want the higher power figure and don't understand the affect the gearbox has.

[Captain Vimes]

The problem with the z22se is that it was designed to be a high torque, low rev engine so everything has been optimised to deliver on that brief from the long stroke, head design, cam profile, inlet manifold and gearing. It's great at what it does but chasing the red line is not it's strength. The SC helps a lot here though as the boost holds the torque right up to the red line and changes it's nature.

 

 

I'm loving the K-series in my Caterham (1.6L, supersport cams, bigger TB/inlet, forged pistons, short ratio straight cut gearbox). Spends it's life between 6k-7.5k rpm, sounds great and just laps up the abuse. I can believe the K-series Elise is a great sports car!

 

[slindborg]

The problem with the z22se is that it was designed to be a high torque, low rev engine so everything has been optimised to deliver on that brief from the long stroke, head design, cam profile, inlet manifold and gearing. It's great at what it does but chasing the red line is not it's strength. The SC helps a lot here though as the boost holds the torque right up to the red line and changes it's nature.

 

 

I'm loving the K-series in my Caterham (1.6L, supersport cams, bigger TB/inlet, forged pistons, short ratio straight cut gearbox). Spends it's life between 6k-7.5k rpm, sounds great and just laps up the abuse. I can believe the K-series Elise is a great sports car!

 

The Z22Se felt very much like my 3.0 V6 Omega.. Very effective but lazy. Great for an easy shove in the back but not nesssssecarily as perfect for a giggle hooning the lanes (it was but as said, the K is a more perky little thing).

 

I reckon had GM let Lotus finish the work on the 1600/1800XE engines to give them the power they could easily deliver, then that would have been a stunner in the VX chassis.

The 1600/1800 engines utterly smashed the 20XE on the dyno etc, so had to dial it back Its pretty easy to pull 180-190BHP from the 1600, and can get as far as 220 if pushed harder. It weighs next to chuff all and would be perfect as the F15 boxes were well matched.

 

Or fit a fat bastard turbo in and just brute force the answer