14 replies to this topic

[JamieShand]

I'm currently on the look out for a stage 2 supercharged 2.2 VX220. I've decided I'm going to buy one that's already been converted and has been running for a few years and miles - seems to make more financial sense.

 

So the question I have is which SC conversion is better? Courtenay Sport or Indie/DIY and OBD Tuner Software? I don't want to start a debate on who out the Indies/DIY does the best install - that chaos can stay in a thread I read from 2016...

 

There are various threads on the forum but some are quite old now. A few years and miles down the line, is there one that's fairing/standing up better than the other?

 

My reading suggests there are pros and cons for both. I wouldn't be looking to go beyond stage 2.

 

Would appreciate your thoughts/feedback/input

[vocky]

OBD tuner is probably the better software, because you can adjust the map yourself. The Courtenay mapping can only altered by them, but their stage 2 mapping (250bhp) is perfectly fine.

 

Many of the conversion parts are OEM, so it's really the small details which make a good conversion, like the wiring loom, fuel pipes, chargecooler system,  etc

 

As with any vx220, it's the condition of the car which needs careful consideration.

 

 

[Rosssco]

I'm currently on the look out for a stage 2 supercharged 2.2 VX220. I've decided I'm going to buy one that's already been converted and has been running for a few years and miles - seems to make more financial sense.

 

So the question I have is which SC conversion is better? Courtenay Sport or Indie/DIY and OBD Tuner Software? I don't want to start a debate on who out the Indies/DIY does the best install - that chaos can stay in a thread I read from 2016...

 

There are various threads on the forum but some are quite old now. A few years and miles down the line, is there one that's fairing/standing up better than the other?

 

My reading suggests there are pros and cons for both. I wouldn't be looking to go beyond stage 2.

 

Would appreciate your thoughts/feedback/input

 

As Vocky said, the main parts are OEM, so the quality of the conversion mainly comes down to how well the wiring has been modified, pipes run, how well various things like the ECU has been located, what pre-rad has been used etc. Courtenay are quite expensive now (used to be a good bit cheaper), and some of the 'Indies' can offer just as good quality.

 

ECU wise, I would recommend OBD-Tuner. Its about twice the cost (£900 ish vs. £450-500 ish) as the Courtenay remap (but far less hassle as you don't need to take the car to Norfolk!), but in my experience the engine just runs far more like an OEM set-up. The Courtenay map is perfectly fine in most cases if you're on a budget.

 

Plus some features like being able to use a T-MAP sensor (so pressure AND temperature can be measured after the SC), adjustable throttle pedal sensitivity, easy to change to different injector types, ability to self-calibrate, are all very useful and about as good as you're going to get from the standard ECU

[JamieShand]

Smashing - thanks for the replies!

So I’ve been and test driven both a Courtenay and an Indie (Vocky and batman) converted cars. Both were stage 2s of a similar age and mileage.

The Courtenay car seemed more frantic whilst the Indie car seemed smoother and less dramatic. Both covered ground at a similar rate of frankly ridiculous knots!!!

Has anyone else found this or could it just be a mental thing?

[172Cup]

I spent 9 months looking for the right spec\colour SC and nothing came up so I ended up buying a very nice 49k 4 owner na and had the conversion done by the usual suspects on here.  I think it cost me £2k more all in but I have the exact car I want.

 

If you find a good na add on the £3.5k ish to charge with obd and see how it compares.

[rob999]

Depends what cars you’re coming from? These cars can be an assault on the automotive senses 👌

[JamieShand]

Other then the raft of usual daily’s I’ve had an Elise 111R a few years ago and currently do a few track days in a Clio 172 Cup.

Friends have got an Elise 111S and a VX turbo which I’ve driven too.

All very different experiences!

[pete-r]

I have the Dutch Ecu (obd tuner) and while I can't comment on power vs courtenay, I do think it's got some cool features that over the last few years have made it feel worthwhile.

I swapped my injectors for VXR ones.
I coded out my egr valve and lambda bypass.
I lowered my fan temp to 98 from 106 to help with cooling, though the SC set up runs cooler than the NA did.
Working with a few of the wizards on the forum I managed to easily get a really flat delivery curve too.

All of which are simple laptop changes compared to the faff of revisiting the tuner every time.

Both options have their place though.

[chris_uk]

If you are local to Leeds, i can meet up with you and show you what they are like.. 

[Ivor]

Plenty of turbos around to save all that faff

[JamieShand]

Plenty of turbos around to save all that faff

Too heavy and no supercharger whiiiiiiiiine

[Ivor]

Plenty of turbos around to save all that faff

Too heavy and no supercharger whiiiiiiiiine

Plenty of whinnnne in mine currently, Mrs has tagged along to zandvoort....

[Nev]

If you intend to keep the car and do work in it yourself, I'd always recommend having your own software to tune/tweak the map. Nothing worse than being held hostage by a single tuner (ie Courtenay in this case).

 

Having the flexibility to swap injectors/MAFs/ignition/fueling etc yourself is very valuable.

[Talk-torque]

I have the Dutch Ecu (obd tuner) and while I can't comment on power vs courtenay, I do think it's got some cool features that over the last few years have made it feel worthwhile.

I swapped my injectors for VXR ones.
I coded out my egr valve and lambda bypass.
I lowered my fan temp to 98 from 106 to help with cooling, though the SC set up runs cooler than the NA did.
Working with a few of the wizards on the forum I managed to easily get a really flat delivery curve too.

All of which are simple laptop changes compared to the faff of revisiting the tuner every time.

Both options have their place though.

Further to what Peter says about the Dutch software, another great thing about it is the way it self tunes the engine. The guy who developed and sells the software, another Peter, takes your ECU and loads it with the software and a base map which will work with the engine spec you have. Fine tuning the engine is done by driving the car, with a laptop connected to the obd port, at various speeds and throttle openings. The software uses the engine and exhaust sensors to adjust fuel and ignition settings to the optimum, writing a corrected map onto the laptop. When you have covered enough of the mapping range, the program will interpolate the rest, completing the new map. This can now be loaded onto the ECU, replacing the old map. All this removes the trial and error part of mapping the engine, giving really good results without the need for huge technical knowledge. If the engine spec is subsequently changed, all that is required is a repeat of the mapping process. It’s expensive in the first place, but pays dividends later on!

[paul_mck]

my Dutch ECU is painstakingly making its way back from Holland, Im absolutely bursting to drive it again. Have fitted a 2.4 manifold while it was away so Im double excited