14 replies to this topic

[Thorney]

I'm playing devils advocate here to some extent but hear me out. Lets say I test drive the VXT and think its pants (not likely I feel but as this is primarily going to be a track car, performance and handling are crucial). Assuming I'm disappointed with the VXT I'll go straight out and buy an NA one and mod it EXTENSIVELY. How much is a car and the mods likely to cost? Current thinking includes: Oz wheels Spax (or other suspension) Exhaust Manifold Unichip (or other) K&N filter Harness (and possibly seats) Am I really going to get VXT levels of performance? If so, what is all this going to cost? Regal seem like the logical choice but there are other tuners out there so I'm interested in ideas. Any comments?

[paulb]

If you want to get serious power then you may want to try Swindon. They take the old 2 litre XE engine up to about 250 bhp or so for road use (as in Caterham JPE) I've been speaking to them. They don't do anything on the 2.2 but may be interested in it later! Regal looks like about £3k. I'd put wheels and tyres at about £1k. Suspension I've not looked into yet but can't be much more than £1k. So that's about £5k. You can get 6 month old VX220s with silly miles (<1000) for about £20k (as good as new!) All in about £25k (a bit cheaper than the turbo!) You can't count harnesses as they would cost you extra on the VX-T also Paul

[Jamie K]

Thorney, I have also spoken to Swindon, you have mail. Cheers Jamie

[Ricky2772]

You can get 6 month old VX220s with silly miles (<1000) for about £20k (as good as new!)

since the stock engine is pretty much endless, I would save WAY more ang go for one of those cars in the 17K brakets, like the speedygonzales one, cars that have been puttering around for 10-12k miles and are still barely broken-in... then you get your mods.
and you can save a bundle there too, like leaving the stock exhaust manifold (save a lot of installation time/hassle) BUT having a kat-bypass like I did for 200 euros, and installing a Regal or a Moto-concept sport exhaust for 610 euros (about to be on sale in a week or two...).
then sport cams can be had for 1000 euros....
if track fun is your aim, then even the law of physics tells that the turbo cannot be faster (other than in the straights) : same tires and more weight=worse turn-in speed, lateral G' and exit speed, regardless of the power;
those are the pro-driver Simon Harrison comments on vx sprint (165 bhp):
"Quite superb.It feels like a little racecar. Exactly the right amount of power and grip. A serious lot of fun."
.... all this with 165 hp, lowered and OZ wheels+A039R!
who said that perfection is in the middle?
hmmm...145-200 hp....meet at 175?
remember the S1 Elise 160? it was deemed by most as the best S1 ever....
and here's what Simon says of the awesome S2 Elise 190:
"Unsurprisingly, it handles quite a lot like the VX220. Again, as much power as you really need. You may be able to go faster with stickier tyres but you would not necessarily enjoy yourself more. (that's why I'd opt for 039 instead of 048!) .The road tyres are in many ways MORE fun ... because it slides more gently and at lower speeds."
also: "the VX sprint is SUPERB, but the elise 190 has something extra (doh, 35,000 gbp...), a real dynamic finesse (lighter!!) subtly more involving and rewarding......Yoko 039R made it rather quicker compared to stock Potenzas, (by 3 secs per lap) but the balance and feel stayed much the same."

Edited by Ricky2772, 20 February 2003 - 09:29 AM.

[minime]

hi thorney! just thinking stu may let you borrow/drive the vxt .....i think i should let you drive mine too...so that you can compare!! actually i dont mind anyone driving my car!! should be a good meet on the 2nd!! steve ps i am going to take rikkis advice on the wheels and tyres!! last weekend was an eye opener....seeing some of these lotus boys with the semi slick style tyres!!

[Thorney]

No doubt suspension/wheels/tyres make the biggest difference on track performance. The question is whether I go down the route to create my own NA Sprint spec or the Turbo. I've no doubt I'll mod the turbo too Really need to get a VXT out on a track to see if I like it. Might give Palmer a call

[Purebob]

Thorney, I think that the chances of you thinking the turbo is 'pants' is very VERY slim indeed ! You have Optimax in your blood - and the car will be the most accelerative you have ever (probably) experienced in a car ! But....not being funny...have you actually DRIVEN an NA VX yet or have you been waiting for the Turbo ? If not I think you should have a good long test in an NA VX so you can compare the turbo over the same road. Perhaps you are expecting the NA VX to be slow in some way rather than a match point to point for my old RB5 or your RS4 (which I would say it is - honest !). I only ask because as you can see I'm a bit of a bonkers car fan myself too ...and I have difficultly in seeing how anyone could consider the NA VX to be in need of a turbo to make it fun !

[Ricky2772]

Thorney, I think that the chances of you thinking the turbo is 'pants' is very VERY slim indeed ! You have Optimax in your blood - and the car will be the most accelerative you have ever (probably) experienced in a car !

But....not being funny...have you actually DRIVEN an NA VX yet or have you been waiting for the Turbo ? If not I think you should have a good long test in an NA VX so you can compare the turbo over the same road. Perhaps you are expecting the NA VX to be slow in some way rather than a match point to point for my old RB5 or your RS4 (which I would say it is - honest !).

I only ask because as you can see I'm a bit of a bonkers car fan myself too ...and I have difficultly in seeing how anyone could consider the NA VX to be in need of a turbo to make it fun !

very true....make yourself a favor, and test-drive steve's car or anybodyelse with the lowered suspensions kit....THEN go test the turbo.....

[Sicey]

It would be interesting for Steve to take the Turbo for a spin first to see how it squares up to his Regal modded baby. Cant wait to hear your comparisons Steve on March 2nd, I'm sure Stu will let you have a little play wont you Stu? PS. Thorney - your not giving in to group peer pressure are you

[paulb]

Jamie - can you drop me an update on what Swindon told you please?

[Jamie K]

Sorted. Basically this boiled down to Swindon being willing and able to develop a 2.2 Ecotec package to provide around 190-200bhp (induction, cams, management, exhaust) and remain flexible for road use. Pricing is yet to be confirmed but should be no more than 4k all in. However to develop the package would be double that amount. And somebody has to be prepared to meet this cost. I would be interested to persue this, although probably not until autumn time, as I have yet to take delivery of my car (1st march), if anybody else is interested then PM me. Thanks Jamie

[speedyK]

Having thought long and hard, I reckon anyone who has already got an N/A VX simply loses out too much on trading up to the turbo. And I don't need or want central locking, more speakers, kick plates etc. to lug around.

For the same money that you would lose trading up, you can virtually get everything you need done for the 2.2 (i.e. motor, and wheels and suspension sorted) and I'll wager a 2.2 (don't forget it's 60kg lighter) with the Delta-Motor 195 bhp supercharger will see off a Turbo on the track. I've decided that's the way to go and when I've got it done I can't wait to take on my first Turbo. :ph34r: :ph34r:

For all those who don't yet have a VX, the decision is a little harder – it's easier to buy the performance "out of the box" with the turbo, but will it be more fun?

[VEX]

Stop it all of you. The more you talk, the more I want to do something with mine. Seeing minime's on the 2nd will be even worse! Cw.

[Thorney]

For all those who don't yet have a VX, the decision is a little harder – it's easier to buy the performance "out of the box" with the turbo, but will it be more fun?

Exactly. I have driven a VX a few times nromally the same day I drove an S2 and decided on both counts I wanted more from it - hence waited.

Agree I need a longer drive in both back to back to make the final decision.

To update my position:

Wheels/Suspension will need changing anyway, same as harness's/seats poss.

The question is whether to get a VXT with production power, warranty but potential to mod further or a NA for less money and mod it. Getting an NA one means warranty goes bye bye (which it would do when I modded the VXT I know).

Still confoosed

[garyk220]

[quote name='Ricky2772' date='Feb 20 2003, 09:23 '] [/QUOTE]
since the stock engine is pretty much endless, I would save WAY more ang go for one of those cars in the 17K brakets, like the speedygonzales one, cars that have been puttering around for 10-12k miles and are still barely broken-in... then you get your mods.
[/quote]
I agree Ricky. Although I am biaised since I'll be selling a Calypso Red 2001 VX with 13k miles very soon Just as soon as I get a delivery date for the VXT.

PS and it will be a lot cheaper than £17k