17 replies to this topic

[Matt]

Hi, I've been looking into the possibility of switchable maps for my VXT. But the solutions i found so far all seem to fall short of what i want. (mainly the PC upload or multiple maps part) Ideal solution: a device like the 'bluefin', which when plugged in backs up the current map and replaces it with a map chosen by myself. Example - i go to a 'tuner' ask for a stg 2 remap, i've already backed up the original map onto the device and then connected to my PC (for extra backup) they then map my VXT and later I take a backup of that to the PC via the device. Following that I would also want a valet mode map (low rev limit and speed etc..) for droping it off a stealerships etc.. no racing my P+J!!!! And if i was to be picky an economy map as i spend most of my life on the motorway. I'm happy if a device could only handle one different map at a time (would like them all 'but you can't always get what you want'), but if not I would like the functionality to choose different ones to upload from my PC Therefore Sunday night I would switch to economy for the week of commuting. Armed with the device in my pocket with the stg2 map loaded, i find Wednesday evening the sun is out and i fancy a spirited drive through the country so I ping the stg2 map on. That night I know i'm dropping the car off at VXL so I leave the stg2 on but upload the crippled map to the device ready for when i drop the car off. See where i'm going with this?? Sorry if some of you are going to take the p*ss but I think it may suit my situation. BTW economy mode is a poor excuse as i find if I just do motorway driving for a whole tank i'm getting about 45+ MPG!!!!!! OMG!!!! I love this car!!

[snoopstah]

Not familiar with how the Bluefin device works, but the Revo switchable maps don't work in that way - they instead have all three maps uploaded into the ECU, and the switchbox just tells the ECU to use a different one. I think there are a few problems with a solution such as you've outlined: Firstly, you could flash any other VX with your map, which means there's nothing to stop you reselling your stage 2 map - obviously, no tuner is going to entertain letting any customer have access to such a product. Secondly, from what I've seen, flashing the ECU takes about 30 minutes, so it's hardly a quick process. Thirdly, I'm pretty sure there's a few cases where a flashed ECU has gone wrong, requiring a new unit - obviously the chances of this are vastly increased if someone who isn't familiar with the equipment is flashing the ECU (e.g. low batteries or early disconnection would both likely screw the ECU up pretty successfully). This is why most switchable units don't actually upload the entire map each time, just send a signal to tell the ECU to switch to a different profile. For this to work, the ECU has to have enough spare capacity to store the stock map, the performance map and the valet map. I have no idea if the ECU has this capacity, and even if it did, I don't believe anyone provides this service for the VX currently.

[slindborg]

I know some other company as opposed to the "lovely" *cough* superchips do similar...

Maybe try calling Jamsport in northamptonshire to see if they can do anything.....

I know that on the C20LET you can get phase chips that have a rotary switch to select boost levels etc.

Secondly, from what I've seen, flashing the ECU takes about 30 minutes, so it's hardly a quick process.

LMFAO
Even our crappy old not much mroe advanced than punch card programmed ECU's only take 10 mins MAX and i really mean MAX to flash, and thats a COMPLETE flash including the boot sector, non-volitile sector, the strategy and calibration (thats software and map to the tuning folks) and the main CPU monitor software taht goes onto a different chip.

Generally it takes no more than 5mins to flash an ECU, anyone who takes 30 mins is just making it look long to justify the costs

[snoopstah]

Generally it takes no more than 5mins to flash an ECU, anyone who takes 30 mins is just making it look long to justify the costs

Well obviously it depends on the size of the ECU and the speed of the serial connection - I don't have data for either of those.

And any decent system will do a full verification of the data to confirm that the data has not been corrupted somewhere along the path, which will double the time.

All I can go on is that I've seen a couple of VX220s mapped and it's taken, in my estimation and completely untimed, around half an hour. I agree it seems a long time, but without specs of the ECU and connection I can't say if that's unreasonably slow.

Maybe it just felt like 30 minutes

Edited by snoopstah, 25 June 2007 - 09:08 AM.

[taylor]

i know its possible on the omex 600 ECU to run 2 maps and manually switch between the 2

[Matt]

First in case of any flames, i do not pretend to know anything about the ecu programming arena, i'm purely asking to learn more and possibly find a solution to what i would like to buy.

REVO SPS - I believe not available for vauxhall's

I think 30 min seems a little over exaggerated reading through the literature for some of the available devices 'a few minutes' has been banded around a few of the sites.

Also i understand that you could in theory go around remapping friends cars but surely there is either some protection in the device or if you got caught is it not theft? police etc....

Damage to ecu - well i'm not sure with most devices but on the bluefin "In the unlikely event of bluefin being responsible for causing damage to your vehicle, Superchips will, under the terms and conditions of their warranty, repair your vehicle. The warranty is not intended to replace the existing manufacturer's warranty, but will supplement the cover to include the parts deemed to be excluded by the manufacturer."

The 'bluefin' (by superchips) sounds awesome the only problem is it seems, and i may be wrong, you can only use their map and you can't upload your own (alternate from your favourite tuner) but it does plug into the pc so something may be able to be done there!!

Oh and its also an error code reader +more!!!

http://www.mybluefin.co.uk/

Would appreciate a comment from Thorney or Courtenay if they know anything about these devices.

[speedster]

Hi Matt,

The Emerald K3 ECU can switch between 3 different maps simply by flik'n a dial or toggle switch.


More details here CLICKY

Steve

[slindborg]

iirc the new DTA's can do selectable maps too, as can the pikey but lovelable MegaSquirt. Flashing over K-Line (the protocol that gm loved in the late 90's-early 2000's) takes barely longer than our flashing over can. Yes there are system checks but the ECU itself does that by way of checksums etc after its flashed in (in most cases anyway) To find out how much space is there, you might need to crack open the ECU and read the chip part number off the main CPU (if its on show) and find that on the tinterweb (its likely to be an ST, NI, TI, motorolla part) and see what the memory space is for it etc.

[Matt]

Thanks for the input guys, the emerald sounds great, my only worry is, can i still go to the the likes of thorney/courtney for remaps? Also it looks like a much bigger mod!!! sensors etc.... but got to love the 3d modeling on a PC etc... I'd have no idea what it means but how cool would it look!!!! :-) (don't take the p*ss, i can't help being crap!) Also if i could get away with it i'd prefer to stick to the easy plug in and remove solution if one is possible.

Edited by Matt, 25 June 2007 - 10:01 AM.

[Dave]

<Switchable Maps>

here you go

[speedster]

Thanks for the input guys, the emerald sounds great, my only worry is, can i still go to the the likes of thorney/courtney for remaps? Also it looks like a much bigger mod!!! sensors etc.... but got to love the 3d modeling on a PC etc... I'd have no idea what it means but how cool would it look!!!! :-) (don't take the p*ss, i can't help being crap!)

Also if i could get away with it i'd prefer to stick to the easy plug in and remove solution if one is possible.

AFAIK, from previous topics, TMS are planning to install Emerald ECU's into VX's. If this is true you'll be in great shape! Installing the hardware does take effort and time OK but if you can get your head around cable colour codes and are happy to manually trace cable routes in the engine bay it aint too much of a chore. I have match up an Emerald ECU with the NA loom for my supercharger project. Best approach is to get a spare loom and configure and use it for the ECU swap out.

[Guy182]

Thanks for the input guys, the emerald sounds great, my only worry is, can i still go to the the likes of thorney/courtney for remaps? Also it looks like a much bigger mod!!! sensors etc.... but got to love the 3d modeling on a PC etc... I'd have no idea what it means but how cool would it look!!!! :-) (don't take the p*ss, i can't help being crap!)

Also if i could get away with it i'd prefer to stick to the easy plug in and remove solution if one is possible.

dave walker, i.e. the man behind emerald ECU's is a mapping god anyway so you wouldn't need to take it anywhere else.

[Thorney]

Gone a bit off topic here I guess. Ref Bluefin, we've done this for the VXR range but frankly its a costly thing to develop and the VX220 market isn't big enough to justify the cost. Its basically a unit that you can use to install remaps on to cars (along with a load other stuff). Ref Emerald, yes we've been doing some work on this and yes we will be releasing something for the car but remember the VX220 runs on fly by wire and Emerald only works on throttle cable cars. We've converted the 2.2 to throttle cable for the TB cars so we've sorted that already so its not a big jump to Emerald ECU replacement.

[slindborg]

mild topic sway, but the cable conversion... Is it as simple as chucking a K series S2 elise pedal in?

[Matt]

Woah!! This is starting to look all to way expensive and not an easy solution i was hoping for. Ref Thorney and Bluefin: Sorry to sound thick, but I guess its not just as easy as sticking a map on it and off you go as i see from their website its already working for the astra/zafira 2.0L Turbo lump. I would have thought its basically the same system to write to the ecu etc.. Scrub that i just read what i wrote and as i know nothing it was a stupid presumption. Thanks for everyone's help though its just at the moment it looks like a cheap/easy enough solution is not available for me.

[speedster]

A cheap and quick way to alternate between different power options on a turbo is to 'effect' the internal wastegate actuator operation...

[NickB787]

Thanks for the input guys, the emerald sounds great, my only worry is, can i still go to the the likes of thorney/courtney for remaps? Also it looks like a much bigger mod!!! sensors etc.... but got to love the 3d modeling on a PC etc... I'd have no idea what it means but how cool would it look!!!! :-) (don't take the p*ss, i can't help being crap!)

Also if i could get away with it i'd prefer to stick to the easy plug in and remove solution if one is possible.

AFAIK, from previous topics, TMS are planning to install Emerald ECU's into VX's. If this is true you'll be in great shape! Installing the hardware does take effort and time OK but if you can get your head around cable colour codes and are happy to manually trace cable routes in the engine bay it aint too much of a chore. I have match up an Emerald ECU with the NA loom for my supercharger project. Best approach is to get a spare loom and configure and use it for the ECU swap out.

Thanks Mate sould save me a lot of time

[speedster]

Thanks for the input guys, the emerald sounds great, my only worry is, can i still go to the the likes of thorney/courtney for remaps? Also it looks like a much bigger mod!!! sensors etc.... but got to love the 3d modeling on a PC etc... I'd have no idea what it means but how cool would it look!!!! :-) (don't take the p*ss, i can't help being crap!)

Also if i could get away with it i'd prefer to stick to the easy plug in and remove solution if one is possible.

AFAIK, from previous topics, TMS are planning to install Emerald ECU's into VX's. If this is true you'll be in great shape! Installing the hardware does take effort and time OK but if you can get your head around cable colour codes and are happy to manually trace cable routes in the engine bay it aint too much of a chore. I have match up an Emerald ECU with the NA loom for my supercharger project. Best approach is to get a spare loom and configure and use it for the ECU swap out.

Thanks Mate sould save me a lot of time

Question for you Nick. Are you running with an idler pulley?