536 replies to this topic

[Muncher]

Have been discussing the brace bar brackets tonight with Spitfire, revised design and having looked back at the photos in this thread and of pictures of taken of my own car and Joe's VXT with a Miltek I'm pretty confident they will all fit. For reference, the main brace bolt which runs through the subframe will go as low as the subframe allows given an M10 washer has to fit on the other side. This is probably about 15mm lower than the predrilled hole in the toe link bracket.

Edited by Muncher, 01 March 2008 - 09:16 PM.

[Spitfire Engineering]

Hi all We had a report that there was play in some of the rod ends fitted to one vehicle, at first we were a bit puzzled as it was only the one fitment in about 25 kits fitted so we suspected other possible causes, however after a new set was fitted and there were still reports of play I went back to the manufacturer to source the potential issues. It seems they were becoming aware of a problem and were already attempting to determine the exact cause though the batch and exact number of units affected was not known, though this is not a blanket problem with just a few random units affected. I pointed out that from our point of view I was not prepared to supply any units that were known to be at risk and would recall all issued units. I have to say at this point that their response was superb as you would expect from a quality manufacturer. They have agreed to immediately replace all units with new three piece top of the range units FOC without delay and have also picked up the tab for the return freight to the US of the old units! The new units have a stainless race, chrome moly body and are way over spec for this application, the only downside is these units are not Teflon lined and have to be greased, but as they are booted as standard this is not a big deal and will be supplied pre greased and ready to fit. Later this year they will have Teflon lined units available if required. For those of you who have already fitted the kit I should point out the maximum play seen is about .3-.4mm per joint! There is absolutely no possibility of failure or separation and at worst you may feel the play in the suspension but on the road it is unlikely you would even notice. If you cannot feel any play when the wheel is raised then the chances are the units are OK but they will be replaced as and when you are ready for them anyway. If you have not yet fitted the kit, Paul will send you a new set of units as soon as they arrive over here hopefully in the next few days. They simply screw in to replace the original units. We do need the original units back though as they need to be returned to the states in due course. I apologise for any inconvenience caused, it was quite a shock to us as well as the manufacturers who were embarrassed to say the least but I think their attitude and commitment to solving the problem (which I suspect is an injection issue) as well as minimising any inconvenience to the customer indicates what type of company they are and at this stage I am more than happy to continue with them. Let us not forget there are plenty of very high quality rod end manufacturers out there should the need arise. If anyone is unhappy and wishes to return the kit for a full refund they may do so, this would be appreciated in fact, as we have sold the entire first batch for the VX and we desperately need some stock Just to reiterate, the play is in the movement of the PTFE race and cannot lead to separation or failure of the unit. This is no risk involved. Final design of the brace bracket is now complete; I will sort the manufacturing out in the next few days.

[Guy182]

oops.. joe just paid out for a full geo after fitting his

[MAXR]

I've just completed a fast trackday at Rockingham and checked the Rods this morning after reading your thread. Both rose joints do have excess play, bugger! & I had a full geo done at Plans as well not to mention a new diffuser I've just fitted too, bugger, bugger! Please let me know what I should do next. Cheers MAXR

[Spitfire Engineering]

Keeping the geo setting is not a problem, just a bit fiddly. The new units will be identical as are the collets etc. I will give Paul the details before the new units are sent out.

[Muncher]

Keeping the geo is not a problem as you simply measure (with a vernier caliper if possible) the distance from the lock nut to the end of the exposed thread. I will swap the ones on my car with new ones having just geo'd it and am confident it can be reset exactly, to one hundredth of a milimeter. I'll post a full guide on how to swap them without altering the toe whatsoever when they arrive this week.

[MAXR]

Keeping the geo is not a problem as you simply measure (with a vernier caliper if possible) the distance from the lock nut to the end of the exposed thread. I will swap the ones on my car with new ones having just geo'd it and am confident it can be reset exactly, to one hundredth of a milimeter. I'll post a full guide on how to swap them without altering the toe whatsoever when they arrive this week.

Cheers, Instructions would be handy.

MAXR

[Sam3703]

wow that's big news... at least I've not done the geo yet. how come can you say that .4mm play per rod is not noticeable and no new geo needs to be done after replacement as a reminder, the toe-in adjustment tolerance is 20' (0,33deg), which corresponds to approx 0,5mm of length difference on the links (approx the value of the play you claim). even if I had a vernier caliper so long (which is not the case), I would not be confident with a replacement without new geo. Especially on that car so nervous from the rear wheels, and especially on the english roads...

[VIX]

Am I right in thinking that for those who have not fitted the kit we can just wait and the replacement ends will be sent out to us with return instructions?

[Muncher]

Am I right in thinking that for those who have not fitted the kit we can just wait and the replacement ends will be sent out to us with return instructions?

Yup

[Winstar]

I've finally got my bonus so I'll send you the money for my kit tonight, If I send you the money for a 2.4 mani ECU and dipstick bracket can you send it all together?

[Muncher]

Yeah sure.

[myhifi]

Hi Paul, How do we proceed for those of us overseas ? Thanks.

[Muncher]

Hi Paul,

How do we proceed for those of us overseas ?

Thanks.

Not sure on the logistics but the new parts will be couriered to you, if the brace bar brackets are done pretty soon, which hopefully they should the bits can go with the brace kits

[MAXR]

Hi Muncher, Let me know when a brace bar kit becomes available as I would like to check it with my 2ublar 3" exhaust which will be with me end of next week. Cheers MAXR

[Sam3703]

Paul, please tell me when you're gonna have the rod ends available... that's becoming urgent here... i need my car for trackdays soon (prepaid) and it's still in bits & pieces waiting for the toelink to be re-fitted

[Spitfire Engineering]

wow that's big news...

at least I've not done the geo yet.

how come can you say that .4mm play per rod is not noticeable and no new geo needs to be done after replacement
as a reminder, the toe-in adjustment tolerance is 20' (0,33deg), which corresponds to approx 0,5mm of length difference on the links (approx the value of the play you claim). even if I had a vernier caliper so long (which is not the case), I would not be confident with a replacement without new geo. Especially on that car so nervous from the rear wheels, and especially on the english roads...

Adjustment tolerance is what the suspension is set to and doesn't bear much resemblance to the movement you can expect in the system once in motion and under load due to compliance of the suspension bushes, give in the subframe, etc and that’s before you even get to the tyres!
The play is not open but may reach this figure under load, without load it is less.
Academic as they are all being replaced anyway ………..

Basic steps to maintain geo setup : -
Place a strip of plywood under the wheel that extends rearwards enough for you grip it and rotate the wheel with it, about 2 foot or so.
Slacken the small bolts on bracket right off and reduce torque on main chassis bolt to about 15ft/lbs. then do the same with the outer bolt. (This just reduces the force required to undo the bolt completely and avoids having to use force on the bolts which may move the suspension and/or the car).

Slacken the outer bolt so the nut is off the upright then gently rotate the wheel with the wood first one way then the other link drops and is hanging by the nut.
Check that the outer bolt can slide in and out of the upright freely. if not move the wheel so it can. This is the central position for the bolt when re assembling and will give a maximum error of about .2mm

Carefully remove the chassis bolt and remove the toe link, be careful not to move the car or suspension in the process.
Slacken the locknuts and remove the rod-ends and lock nuts.

Prepare the link by first fitting the locknuts until they touch the Nitrile boot then screw the rod end into the link.
Refit to the car with the chassis bolt first at 10ft/lbs
Offer the link up to the upright and twist the rod until the outer bolt slides freely into the upright. lock down to correct torque setting.
Lock down the inner bolt to correct torque setting and also the bracket bolts.

This will keep you within a few % of the original geo.

Please note this is just for the few who have had a geo done after fitting, for the rest you will need a geo anyway, though you can use the above to keep the geo you had if you wish.

The rod ends left last Monday and are due any time now.

[Muncher]

For Joe-Turbo and sam and any others who need their replacements urgently can you PM me your address so either me or Spirfire can get them to you as quickly as possible.

[Muncher]

Bracebar bracket design has been finalised and is in the process of being drawn up to be made then plated. Bracebars are already here with inserts. Having 200 6mm thick nitrile washers made to space out the undertray.

[Muncher]

OK, there's some good news, some bad news and some good news... Good news is the replacement joints arrived. The bad news is they were rubbish, sloppy play and just not good enough from the factory. They're taking all of those back, topgether with the first lot of joints of which some had too much play and they're refunding the lot. The good news is a different supplier (FK) have taken the order for all the new joints which are again coming from the US. They're a far higher specification than either of the previous two joints and a LOT more expensive than the others as they are racing components. Spitfire will be picking up the tab for that, but they are teflon lined joints which need no lubrication. Expected dispatch from the US is on tuesday. In the meantime I need you to send me your 4 joints back if you haven't fitted them already as the collets are needed to be pressed onto the new joints when they arrive. Bit of a pain in the backside but nothing than 100% right will do.