24 replies to this topic

[Tashyboy]

Don't confess to know owt about um and I don't even own a tubby ( Perish the thought ) but on the VXR forum one of the pretty boys had a bluefin installed on his VXR corsa at thorneys and on the bluefin website for £599 spots you get an impressive 35bhp increase. What would you get on a tubby and for how much?

[slindborg]

bluefin aka superchips aka utter tripe way to modify an ecu (imho of course)

[Thorney]

Bluefin is just a delivery method. We've not developed it for the VX220 as the market is relatively small, sorry.

[robfenn]

Basically a DIY Superchips remap as far as i know, you get this little module with it.

[Guy182]

bluefin aka superchips aka utter tripe way to modify an ecu (imho of course)

[Tashyboy]

bluefin aka superchips aka utter tripe way to modify an ecu (imho of course)

Why ? I know nowt about engine ecu modifications.

[Cookies220]

Seems to be a great idea for modding a VX considering the amount of track use some get. Have a more agressive map for track days, and then change back to a lesser setting for every day use. I'd be up for that!

[M8VXL]

All the tuner are at it now, regal want £600 or £200 if you already have one of there EDS chips installed and courtney also. Marc

[Matt]

I've been looking into it, and the perfect solution would be (if we could get it to work) using the KWP2000+ (i think) take a flash of your original map, then go and get the car tuned to 2,3,etc... custom maps for you motor and back them up. Then flash them back as you need it! Only prob, is i'd want something that was just press one of 3/4/5 buttons to choose the map not have to have the whole laptop setup etc... Ideally this is what i thought the bluefin or the other manufactures versions would do, not just generic un-customised/tweaked maps. IIRC i think such a system is available for the vw/audi engine but not us!! Please correct me if i'm wrong, as i would like to be wrong about it!! As i want the system, 1 high power map, 1 economy mode for the daily commute to work and 1 std map. EDIT: just re read and saw that courtneys are doing something, might go and have a quick look.

Edited by Matt, 11 January 2008 - 10:14 AM.

[Guy182]

no, the best way would be to have a full live map but no one seems to do one. every single engine is different so generic maps are just a compromise. the next best thing is have a map from someone like stephan klassen through Courtenay as he actually knows what hes doing. all IMO of course.

Edited by Guy182, 11 January 2008 - 01:44 PM.

[Matt]

no, the best way would be to have a full live map but no one seems to do one. every single engine is different so generic maps are just a compromise.


the next best thing is have a map from someone like stephan klassen through Courtenay as he actually knows what hes doing.



all IMO of course.

Sorry mate, bit of a novice obviously, bit new to mapping etc..!! So whats different about a live map compared to one you get done on a rolling road and test drive of your car to its own custom mods?

[Guy182]

lol they dont test drive it to its own custom mods at all.

as far as im aware TMS dont have the ability, knowledge or the software to make their own maps, they go to superchips and have various maps made on test cars, they then use these maps as the maps for the 'stages'

mapping is a very big and specialist subject. all the proper mappers have their own businesses really. i.e. wayne schofield of chipwizards, dave walker of emerald, MA developments, Stu @ MSD, etc.

and when your at the higher end of tuning on a turbo engine.. the slight bit wrong can cause it to go lean and then bang..


Id never want a superchip on my car and was under the impression from here that TMS do full custom remaps that they tweak when they dont..
didnt realise they were just loading on different superchip maps to see which worked


im sure if you asked any REAL 'tuner' what they thought of superchips they would just laugh.


im sure stuart would agree with the above too.


dave walker of emerald actually has a published book out on engine management, not sure whats actually in it though as ive never seen it. http://www.haynes.co.../...5&langId=-1

Edited by Guy182, 11 January 2008 - 03:09 PM.

[TankRizzo]

lol they dont test drive it to its own custom mods at all.

as far as im aware TMS dont have the ability, knowledge or the software to make their own maps, they go to superchips and have various maps made on test cars, they then use these maps as the maps for the 'stages'

mapping is a very big and specialist subject. all the proper mappers have their own businesses really. i.e. wayne schofield of chipwizards, dave walker of emerald, MA developments, Stu @ MSD, etc.

and when your at the higher end of tuning on a turbo engine.. the slight bit wrong can cause it to go lean and then bang..


Id never want a superchip on my car and was under the impression from here that TMS do full custom remaps that they tweak when they dont..
didnt realise they were just loading on different superchip maps to see which worked


im sure if you asked any REAL 'tuner' what they thought of superchips they would just laugh.


im sure stuart would agree with the above too.


dave walker of emerald actually has a published book out on engine management, not sure whats actually in it though as ive never seen it. http://www.haynes.co.../...5&langId=-1

Guy, what do Courtenay do then? Do they provide custom mapping, or is it still generic maps tweaked here and there to suit?

[Matt]

Just shows how much i know, I thought the 'NO' custom map was an old school thing that they 'used' to do!! And that both TMS and Courtney's did what i would call proper, well near enough, custom maps per car!! (well take a 'basic/vanilla' one of a certain stage, and then tweak it to the car itself).

Edited by Matt, 11 January 2008 - 03:54 PM.

[TankRizzo]

I've been looking into it, and the perfect solution would be (if we could get it to work) using the KWP2000+ (i think) take a flash of your original map, then go and get the car tuned to 2,3,etc... custom maps for you motor and back them up. Then flash them back as you need it! Only prob, is i'd want something that was just press one of 3/4/5 buttons to choose the map not have to have the whole laptop setup etc...

Ideally this is what i thought the bluefin or the other manufactures versions would do, not just generic un-customised/tweaked maps. IIRC i think such a system is available for the vw/audi engine but not us!!

Please correct me if i'm wrong, as i would like to be wrong about it!! As i want the system, 1 high power map, 1 economy mode for the daily commute to work and 1 std map.

EDIT: just re read and saw that courtneys are doing something, might go and have a quick look.

Matt, what you quite often find as well is that with a fairly aggressive map, you actually improve economy. It's just when you throttle it that you need your own tanker following you.

[Guy182]

lol they dont test drive it to its own custom mods at all.

as far as im aware TMS dont have the ability, knowledge or the software to make their own maps, they go to superchips and have various maps made on test cars, they then use these maps as the maps for the 'stages'

mapping is a very big and specialist subject. all the proper mappers have their own businesses really. i.e. wayne schofield of chipwizards, dave walker of emerald, MA developments, Stu @ MSD, etc.

and when your at the higher end of tuning on a turbo engine.. the slight bit wrong can cause it to go lean and then bang..


Id never want a superchip on my car and was under the impression from here that TMS do full custom remaps that they tweak when they dont..
didnt realise they were just loading on different superchip maps to see which worked


im sure if you asked any REAL 'tuner' what they thought of superchips they would just laugh.


im sure stuart would agree with the above too.


dave walker of emerald actually has a published book out on engine management, not sure whats actually in it though as ive never seen it. http://www.haynes.co.../...5&langId=-1

Guy, what do Courtenay do then? Do they provide custom mapping, or is it still generic maps tweaked here and there to suit?

not sure what you mean, they dont do it live but they do get stephan to make adjustments if needed i.e. if it needs a bit tweaking in the middle then they get stephan to do it, email it over, and put it on the car.

when i had just my VXR turbo and Exhaust, the car was there from 9 till gone 7pm on the dyno while they got stephan to alter various bits, it had a big kick of torque at the beginning so i asked them if they could try and flatten it out a bit and they phoned stephan and it was sorted.

but i think my stage 4 map on now is just the same one they used on alex/erics stage 4's before me
but i was able to witness the afr being checked on a wideband lambda sensor on the dyno and the road so at least i know its safe.

however i now have a decat so once my exhaust is finished properly i will have to go back to have a map adjusted by stephan again.

before i went to TMS orginally i did try getting hold of wayne schofield to try do it fully custom but he didnt answer the phone for over a month

if i could afford it id go and get a standalone ECU and have it mapped by someone who knows the ECU but looking at best part of 2-3k

[Guy182]

Matt, what you quite often find as well is that with a fairly aggressive map, you actually improve economy. It's just when you throttle it that you need your own tanker following you.

i got over 30mpg on a trip to whitby

i get less in my megane work horse!

[TankRizzo]

not sure what you mean, they dont do it live but they do get stephan to make adjustments if needed i.e. if it needs a bit tweaking in the middle then they get stephan to do it, email it over, and put it on the car.

when i had just my VXR turbo and Exhaust, the car was there from 9 till gone 7pm on the dyno while they got stephan to alter various bits, it had a big kick of torque at the beginning so i asked them if they could try and flatten it out a bit and they phoned stephan and it was sorted.

but i think my stage 4 map on now is just the same one they used on alex/erics stage 4's before me
but i was able to witness the afr being checked on a wideband lambda sensor on the dyno and the road so at least i know its safe.

however i now have a decat so once my exhaust is finished properly i will have to go back to have a map adjusted by stephan again.

before i went to TMS orginally i did try getting hold of wayne schofield to try do it fully custom but he didnt answer the phone for over a month

if i could afford it id go and get a standalone ECU and have it mapped by someone who knows the ECU but looking at best part of 2-3k

Cheers bud, that answers my questions. I didn't realise TMS just try different maps until they get one which works.

I don't know whether to take the tubby to Regal or Courtenay for the map. I need to find out from Regal if they do the same as TMS, ie just try different maps, or they are actually able to tweak it where it needs tweaking.

[Guy182]

that might not be how they work. i said as far as i am aware..
over a year ago it was claimed on here that all the TMS maps were tweaked for the individual application.

they took my car in the dyno, and it came out soon after, they didnt even connect the tech2 to it to check it. they cant have possibly given me a custom map in that time and from reading on here they get superchips to pre write the maps that they use.

unless you are going for a higher spec then they should all give similar gains at ''stage 2'' ish, and it isnt going to be too dangerous if it runs a bit lean.
regal use EDS maps, courtenay use stephan klassens maps, and TMS use superchips.

unless you go to someone who maps the cars themselves you arent going to get a full custom remap to your particular engine and setup.

if you are planning on running a decat then you will also need the paramater changing so that the engine management light doesnt come on when you fit the decat. luckily stephan seems to do it on the maps as standard as my decat pipe fitted with no probs.


there were some rumours that stu @ msd in blackpool was doing a full custom remap on a VXT ? not sure if he can compensate for the VXR injectors though like stephan does so not sure if he can do mine.

Edited by Guy182, 11 January 2008 - 06:12 PM.

[tony1]

lol they dont test drive it to its own custom mods at all.

as far as im aware TMS dont have the ability, knowledge or the software to make their own maps, they go to superchips and have various maps made on test cars, they then use these maps as the maps for the 'stages'

mapping is a very big and specialist subject. all the proper mappers have their own businesses really. i.e. wayne schofield of chipwizards, dave walker of emerald, MA developments, Stu @ MSD, etc.

and when your at the higher end of tuning on a turbo engine.. the slight bit wrong can cause it to go lean and then bang..


Id never want a superchip on my car and was under the impression from here that TMS do full custom remaps that they tweak when they dont..
didnt realise they were just loading on different superchip maps to see which worked


im sure if you asked any REAL 'tuner' what they thought of superchips they would just laugh.


im sure stuart would agree with the above too.


dave walker of emerald actually has a published book out on engine management, not sure whats actually in it though as ive never seen it. http://www.haynes.co.../...5&langId=-1

i might wronge but as far as i knew yes they all use a super chip base map according to the stage you want they use the dyno to fine tune it ie: afr boost and ignition advance knock,& so on,because its a standard ecu the software is completly diffrent to a after market type say a apexi or emerald,my last couple of cars i mapped my self one was a elise with a emerald ecu and the other was a skyline with a apex and was farly easy not rocket science,,think you been abit hard with the comments about tms,i bet if you ask your tuners to remap a vauxhall ford or what ever with a stock ecu they would'nt know where to start,superchip invest a great deal of time and money into developing the software something not many tunner wouldnt know where to start