34 replies to this topic

[roy]

here's a question for you all...as im abit confused about declaring mods to the insurance. okay...when getting quotes for my insurance renewal, i declared the mods, but then the question was asked... "how much more bhp does the mods give the car?" now...alot of the bhp increase isnt down to the mods themselves, but due to the ecu remap ( not a chip) that incorporates the mods, so what are you supposed to tell the insurance company? Are you supposed to tell them the max bhp increase, the average throughout the rpm range? what gear are you supposed to dyno it at? Also different dynos are calibrated differently, so how can they prove anything. Air temperature will gives a big bhp difference...so what if i stated my car was giving +20bhp, then had a bump & they tested it in winter with freezing cold air temp & it was giving a max of +40bhp. Also different fuel being put in would make a difference. whats everyones opinion on this? I am all for declaring all my mods, but i cant see the logic in telling them bhp figures....surely you can get away with telling them the mods & saying it gives minimal increase....how can they prove otherwise? even if they stuck it on a dyno, there are so many variables that can alter the bhp on a certain day that they surely cant invalidate your insurance...after all...all the mods are declared.

[mandarinvx]

I thought most insurance companies used 'an approximate percentage power increase'

[roy]

I thought most insurance companies used 'an approximate percentage power increase'

yeh, i know what you mean. ie 0-10% 10-20% etc....but you can have an astra vxr turbo on the vx but a standard map, so its not giving anymore power. how will they know its been remapped? surely then you just say its the astra vxr turbo, but saying it gives very little power increase.

[MrSimba]

I would'nt worry Roy the difference in going from 245bhp stage 2 to 290bhp stage 4 on my insurance will only be £80 extra. Get with a mod friendly insurance company and they won't worry too much and you'll have the piece of mind that if you do ever need to claim your 100% legit.

[theotherjonnymac]

Most mods give a fraction of their claimed increase in power if you believe the reviews. If a car is accident damaged it is assessed remotely via the net by most insurance companies and this will not pick up any mods. Personally, I would not declare any mods that were not visible and TBO I doubt an assessor would spot a Milltek from a standard exhaust in a photo.

[Tfp]

As aready mentioned, go with a modification friendly insurance company like Herts insurance co. Declare everything and you will be ok if you have to claim. If you dont declare mods and you have a serious accident and its discovered that mods are present, the insurance company can refuse to pay for a claim. And if a third party is injured you could land in court with all sorts of problems from civil claims. Unfortunatly Britain is following the likes of America with massive insurance claims, there are loads of lawyers out there now who do "no claim, no fee" service for people involved in non fault accidents. They will put together claims for everything from Hospital treatment, loss of earnings, and belive it or not, new underwear!! So in short, make sure you are properly insured as it could turn in to a massive headache, dont give your insurance company a way to wriggle out of paying out, because they will if they can. Also worth knowing that if your car is inspected after a big accident and found to be unroadworthy in any way, ie. bald tyre, track only exhaust etc, the company can refuse to accept a claim. I know it sound harsh and unfair, but fact I'm afraid.

[vocky]

they asked me what the mods were, what the standard power was and finally what the improved power figure was, so a 48% increase in power

[roy]

As aready mentioned, go with a modification friendly insurance company like Herts insurance co. Declare everything and you will be ok if you have to claim.
If you dont declare mods and you have a serious accident and its discovered that mods are present, the insurance company can refuse to pay for a claim. And if a third party is injured you could land in court with all sorts of problems from civil claims.
Unfortunatly Britain is following the likes of America with massive insurance claims, there are loads of lawyers out there now who do "no claim, no fee" service for people involved in non fault accidents. They will put together claims for everything from Hospital treatment, loss of earnings, and belive it or not, new underwear!!

So in short, make sure you are properly insured as it could turn in to a massive headache, dont give your insurance company a way to wriggle out of paying out, because they will if they can.

Also worth knowing that if your car is inspected after a big accident and found to be unroadworthy in any way, ie. bald tyre, track only exhaust etc, the company can refuse to accept a claim.

I know it sound harsh and unfair, but fact I'm afraid.

yeh....i agree with declaring the mods. not questioning that at all.

what about declaring the bhp increase though....if you say its got 250bhp, then can they dyno it to prove it should you be in an accident, if so, surely different dyno's give different results & different fuel, cold air give different result.

so its not about declaring the mods, its what you tell them with respect to the bhp increase. do you tell them the max increase or average? or just tell them a min increase ie from 0-10%.

[roy]

they asked me what the mods were, what the standard power was and finally what the improved power figure was, so a 48% increase in power

was the 48% increase the max throughout the rpm range or an average? i still dont know how they can base it on bhp figures as that 48% could easily be 40% or indeed 60% depending on the air temp, type of fuel, type of dyno, gear that the car was in on the dyno etc....there are so many variables, i dont know how they can base your insurance on a specific bhp increase value.

[XXX]

"....to the best of my knowledge" & "approximate" are phrases you should use when declaring BHP increases... Technically, you should declare any modification whether performance enhancing or not. Having said this, my policy with More Than says something like "cover is on the basis that no performance enhancing modifications have been made" so it seems they are happy to accept any other mods i.e wheels, VSE etc.....

[Tfp]

As aready mentioned, go with a modification friendly insurance company like Herts insurance co. Declare everything and you will be ok if you have to claim.
If you dont declare mods and you have a serious accident and its discovered that mods are present, the insurance company can refuse to pay for a claim. And if a third party is injured you could land in court with all sorts of problems from civil claims.
Unfortunatly Britain is following the likes of America with massive insurance claims, there are loads of lawyers out there now who do "no claim, no fee" service for people involved in non fault accidents. They will put together claims for everything from Hospital treatment, loss of earnings, and belive it or not, new underwear!!

So in short, make sure you are properly insured as it could turn in to a massive headache, dont give your insurance company a way to wriggle out of paying out, because they will if they can.

Also worth knowing that if your car is inspected after a big accident and found to be unroadworthy in any way, ie. bald tyre, track only exhaust etc, the company can refuse to accept a claim.

I know it sound harsh and unfair, but fact I'm afraid.

yeh....i agree with declaring the mods. not questioning that at all.

what about declaring the bhp increase though....if you say its got 250bhp, then can they dyno it to prove it should you be in an accident, if so, surely different dyno's give different results & different fuel, cold air give different result.

so its not about declaring the mods, its what you tell them with respect to the bhp increase. do you tell them the max increase or average? or just tell them a min increase ie from 0-10%.

When I last insured a modded car with Herts, they asked me approx power, they didnt ask me for any proof, they also asked for a full breakdown of mods, mechanical and external, and some photos too. If they dont ask for proof then not sure they would be able to wriggle unless your guess was way out.

Please dont let me get you paranoid, you are only likely to get close inspection from a serious accident, like if you or some one was killed, in those cases its almost certain the police VEU (vehicle examination unit) will get involved. They then pass on their findings to the relevant organisations.

Give them your estimated power increase and how its come about, then let them decide whether it needs to be proved in any way, but at least if you have declared it, you have done everything in your power to be up front and honest.

Its probably more important for all of us to keep your eyes on the tyres, thats the most common cause for them to refuse pay outs, pretty much all of us VX drivers would look at their tyres, amazing how many other car drivers get stopped and never had a clue they were driving on slicks.

[vocky]

you should supply them with the maximum power figure of your modified vehicle, as you say it will vary according to various parameters, but so will every other car made

[Joe-Turbo]

ill give an example. tuned vxt runs 250bhp on tms rollers (huge fans for cooling) same vxt only run 230bhp on a different dyno ( with desk fan for cooling )

[roy]

ill give an example.

tuned vxt runs 250bhp on tms rollers (huge fans for cooling)
same vxt only run 230bhp on a different dyno ( with desk fan for cooling )

so what are you supposed to tell them, 250 or 230?

[jules_s]

ill give an example.

tuned vxt runs 250bhp on tms rollers (huge fans for cooling)
same vxt only run 230bhp on a different dyno ( with desk fan for cooling )

so what are you supposed to tell them, 250 or 230?

TBH Roy, I would go with the higher figure...I'm sure we have an understanding of such 'measurement' issues, but some desk jockey in a call centre wont.

Either way, declare all the mods (it shouldn't cost too much more if the broker/insurer knows what they are about)

It's been said before but I will repeat it....as JJJ said, a minor prang will see the claim done via JPEGS and e-mail...however, if you run over a pedestrian and kill them the loss adjusters will pull your car apart (including the ECU) I'm not sure that would result in them dynoing the car to 'prove' specific 'power' claims though....I would have thought there would be a margin for climatic/measuring variances even if they did

[roy]

ill give an example.

tuned vxt runs 250bhp on tms rollers (huge fans for cooling)
same vxt only run 230bhp on a different dyno ( with desk fan for cooling )

so what are you supposed to tell them, 250 or 230?

TBH Roy, I would go with the higher figure...I'm sure we have an understanding of such 'measurement' issues, but some desk jockey in a call centre wont.

Either way, declare all the mods (it shouldn't cost too much more if the broker/insurer knows what they are about)

It's been said before but I will repeat it....as JJJ said, a minor prang will see the claim done via JPEGS and e-mail...however, if you run over a pedestrian and kill them the loss adjusters will pull your car apart (including the ECU) I'm not sure that would result in them dynoing the car to 'prove' specific 'power' claims though....I would have thought there would be a margin for climatic/measuring variances even if they did

yeh, i know what you mean. I suppose its best to be safe than sorry eh?

[MrSimba]

I'd go with whatever your dyno reading came out at, that way if it does all go 'pete tong' your covered, they can argue all they like about variables but your just giving them the information given to you by the tuner that did the work

[MIKE_VX]

.........but due to the ecu remap ( not a chip) that incorporates the mods

I take it from the variables you are talking about, that you are looking for a quote from admiral, bell or elephant?

If so, they won't insure ECU remaps even though they are essentially the same as a 'chip'. I had a long saga with them a while back, getting their underwriters involved etc. and it ended in them stating that they will not cover ECU remaps. So, if you declare it as 'engine chip + XX%' it won't be covered if they feel like challenging your claim.

Do a search for my thread on admiral etc., and you can see more. PM me if you want to see their 'offical' response, and I'll send it on - it's good for a laugh to see how little their underwriters know about modifications!

I just switched to Chris Knott, and they were only £80 more and know what they're talking about!

[jimmymac]

they asked me what the mods were, what the standard power was and finally what the improved power figure was, so a 48% increase in power

I bet the list was as long as your left leg!!


How much does a 6 speed gearbox add?

[ratboiler]

I declared all mods, as has been said here before if you have a serious accident then you want to be sure you are covered. Re the increase in power in BHP the best way to advise the insurer of the APPROX increase in power is to talk to the tuner and ask them. Mine was done by TMS and they advised me of the BHP increase and I assume that is who the insurance company will revert to in the case of a claim. I have a lot of mods to mine which seem to make no real difference to the premium once you have advised you have modded the car. I was really unsure of declaring the Astra Turbo fitted in place of the normal VXR 220 Turbo, but bit the bullet to find no increase in premium. What does concern me is that whilst they accept your declaration of mods they are never written down and sent to you for checking it is all done over the phone and could backfire under a claim.