278 replies to this topic

[paulb]

Obviously the excitement of PaulCP's meant you passed me by...

http://www.vx220.org...t=ST&f=9&t=7592

181.2 bhp, 172 ft-lbs on AmD's rollers.

Viper, Milltek full system, AmD stage 3 (gas flowed head, cams, lightened flywheel)

[clipping_point]

OK! Here we go! And its me 500th post!

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[P11 COV]

HEY! Where have I gone?

[clipping_point]

Ooops, sorry! Will add ya tomorrow, at work.

[clipping_point]

Here we go, P11 COV back in list!

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[clipping_point]

Moto-Concept claim they get 180 BHP with an induction and exhaust system + remap. Seems over-optimistic to me. Similarly tuned cars in UK have 170-175 BHP. To get 180 HP and beyond it seems internal changes are necessary: cams, porting, inlet/outlet manifolds.

Sorry, they have to sell that "Concept" to someone else!!

Here's a test (in German):

http://forum.opel-sp...topic=2396&st=0

..scroll down to the PDF

[Andreas]

Moto-Concept claim they get 180 BHP with an induction and exhaust system + remap. Seems over-optimistic to me.

at least 2 cars they have build have been tested on the roller by an independ other company. They did have 180 PS !

Edited by Andreas, 17 April 2004 - 10:38 AM.

[clipping_point]

Sorry Andreas, it is (almost) impossible to measure the power at the crank. What they measure is the power on the wheels and add whatever they think will suit the customer . Therefore it is more interesting to know the actual power at the wheels. Do you have that info? Furthermore the Z22LE, L850 engine produced only 168 bhp in a bech test when free access to air and fuel was provided, and no backpressure after the engine. So this is the inherent output which can be accessed through reducing the inlet and outlet restriction. And probably not even that, because when Power Mag made their test they probably ran the thing "rich" giving another 5-10 %. This cannot be done with the Speedster/VX because of the catalyst.

[PaulCP]

C/P

For information my power at the wheels is 152.1

Paul

[clipping_point]

Thanx, I'll update. In the meantime here's a graph showing the BHP vs. WHP from the table.

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[DJG]

I'd disagree with the comment re. adding whatever the customer wants to see on to the bhp @ wheels figure. Rolling roads are able to measure frictional losses with some accuracy when they knock the car out of gear and let it run down. Not quite sure how it works or the calculation involved but it is supposed to be quite accurate.

[clipping_point]

They do not either know the gearbox losses and the spread in the diagram between 168 and 176 BHP for the same WHP is dubius, to say the least. Good though that they have a method for wheel losses. It REALLY hard do believe some of the quoted BHP:s and the Moto-Concept 180 BHP represents an all-time-high for a untuned engine.

Edited by clipping_point, 18 April 2004 - 02:01 PM.

[dude]

DJG has right about measuring backwards the transmission, but the accuracy of this would be like +-5% with the rr. with the type like rototest (bolted direct to the wheelhub) with no frictionlosses. it would be in the region of +-1%. still i don´t get why anyone would want anything else than whp. this is undisputable if the rr is done well and it´s easy to compare with other. //anders

[clipping_point]

PaulB:s figures added.

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[Thorney]

AmD actually went to only quoting whp figures but so many customers complained they wanted bhp/torque figures at the flywheel that they gave up.

[clipping_point]

If you simply estimate that BHP is WHP x1,25 than this table is true, based on the information from actual tuned VX220s. Didn´t post the GT180, seems not to fit in, thus it is untrue...or a breakthrough. And this is post 700!

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[clipping_point]

DanL1975 slots in between Cheeky and Minime performancewise. Cheeky has amazing power without the Stage 3, can it be the ambient temp, 15°?

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[clipping_point]

On the german site one guy has "echte 234Nm und 196PS laut Tacho Heute Morgen bei 7000U/Min" meaning 196 BHP and 172 lbft with a dBilas inlet.

[clipping_point]

Just to compare I've added Dudes race engine

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[clipping_point]

And how it compares with a standard engine

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