67 replies to this topic

[Spindoctor]

Good to see you and the car today iram. Fantastic power. Congratulations to John and the TMS team - great result. Just when I was sure I was done with power mods, you have to turn up...

[Joe-Turbo]

nice stats.

quick question, if you dont have the "forged pistons, rods cam and head" what exactly does the stage 5 consist of?

just had a look at tms's website and under stage 5 it says

"ECU remap, full Milltek exhaust system, charge cooler, supplemental radiator, lightened flywheel, Sachs performance paddle clutch, roller bearing turbo, uprated actuator, forged pistons, forged rods, gas flowed head, Schrick racing cam kit, – Approx 330bhp "

so is it just the "roller bearing turbo" that you have above a stage 4?

Edited by Joe-Turbo, 29 June 2008 - 03:26 PM.

[Tom]

Thats some good numbers even better than TMS race car enjoy. You say you took up where vxr36 left off but i thought there was 3 or 4 stage 5 allready out there as per TMS website. But whatever enjoy the beast.

[Code Monkey]

Will be good to see it at the chase.

[Thorney]

To be honest after the way that I personally and my team were treated over the whole stage 5 thing I was pretty close to pulling out of the VX220 market and its a good deal of the reason I post here so little. We've been accused of all kinds of things from a very small group of people (99% of whom have never had any actual work done at TMS) that I considered that the VX220 market was something I no longer wished to be involved with. However, at the same time every owner who came here with their car expressed genuine thanks that we looked after them and we were appreciated - that made a huge difference to all of us here. So when Nigel came in asking to be the next car to go to stage 5 I involved the whole team as to what we should do. The response was a resounding yes from everyone here. The bottom line was that we knew that the stage 5 VXT was probably the fastest car we would ever tune, we knew from the race car that it could be done well but we needed more time to develop the package for a road car. I had the same conversation with Nigel as I did before, the main componants were set, we knew the turbo and the manifold were perfect but we needed more time on mapping, injectors and heat insulation but considering the grief we got last time we decided that we would approach the upgrade with a complete fresh set of eyes. Nigel and I agreed, we'd upgrade the car to stage 5 but keep the standard internals for the moment to see what level they could take reliably, we would drop the power to the level we considered the bottom end would reliably accept with a view that if we'd gone to far then we could update the internals over winter. The differences between Nigels car and the previous stage 5 are actually pretty small (as we thought). The manifold is the same (and doesn't need ceramic coating), the turbo is the same but with slightly different internals on the inlet side, indeed the only mechanical changes we made were to the heat shielding, the injectors and a lot of time mapping. The heat shielding is now best described as 'complete' We've no longer need the raised bootlid and the entire engine bay and every external componant has been shielded to ensure that there will be no repeats of the race car failures we had (crankshaft sensors mainly). Nigels car runs the same charge cooler we've been running for 5 years - if it ain't broke why fix it? It runs the sach sintered Sachs clutch, the same Quaife LSD and the usual Nitrons, TD1.2 wheels, R888 tyres. What has really paid off has been the mapping which we did entirely on our dyno with Superchips tirelessly responding to each suggestion we had, over an over again. The result is a 350bhp/370lb of torque VXT running on only 21psi of boost. As with all larger turbo cars we have sacrificed some of the lower rpm power (under 3500rpm the car feels pretty standard) but the torque and power curve barely give the drive justice, it literally takes off, hardly surprising when we first ran the race car at Snetterton even the commentator saw that the car actually lifted its front wheels off the ground such was the power. Now we've spent a long time (almost a month) just perfecting the mapping, we've managed to get a smooth progressive power delivery that is both shocking (a few people went out at the weekend with Nigle at a meet and I understand everyone was a little shocked) but also a lot more controllable that the race car was. Indeed, drive the car delicately and you'd barely notice it, but drive it hard and its really does make your eyes hurt. Now this is effectively a race car for the road, there are downsides, firstly it must be run on Tesco 99 or V Power fuel if driven hard (it will run happily on 95 octane but we wouldn't only recommend that if driving delicately in a 'get you home' scenario). It needs to be properly warmed up and properly cooled down. Obvious stuff of course. Other than that its a VXT like all the others. Fuel economy is pretty similar except when driving hard then its plain silly but then what would you expect? I personally would like to thank Nigel, not just for his patience (the car has been ready to go back to him for some time but we all wanted it tested in house before we even let him have it) but more importantly for giving me back my love for the car after past actions from a few people made me re-think ever upgrading one again. I don't really car if we never do another stage 5, indeed the stage 4 is proably a better road car with lower down torque and driveability day in and day out but jump from a stage 4 (which frightens most people) into a stage 5 and you're reminded that sometimes the absurd is the only way to go. What has really made a difference is that the race VXT (which has been mothballed this season) is now very much back on plan. With the changes in mapping we have now and combined with the fact that two race series in the UK have specifically set a class structure that suits the car (running on slicks not artifically small road/track tyres) we can start to exploit the power/weight opportunities we have with the car. Pretty much all the enhancements we've made on Nigels car will now be applied to the race car, save for the fact that we have uprated internals so can run much higher boost, at 28psi we should be over 375bhp. So thak you Nigel from everyone at TMS, we all shared in the pain from before so its meant we have all shared in the joy from both getting it right but getting it right for an owner who understands what we do and how we do it.

[techieboy]

Can't speak for what the front wheels do but having followed Nigel and his car for 50 miles during the meet yesterday, it certainly sat down a couple of inches at the rear when the boost came in and the weight transferred. Then off it shot, accompanied by a cloud of dust that it seemed to pull up from the road underneath the rear diffuser (and a liberal collection of stones being fired back in my direction). Very impressive and I hope it's all that you want it to be.

[Thorney]

Yep, we need to re-asses his suspension set up, we did the same on the race car but Nigel only has single adjustable shocks and we need to increase the compression damping but not rebound. I'll put up charts (Nigel was supposed to - lol at them now shooting under the seat) as soon as I can.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

At least he's save on front tyre wear!!

[Joe-Turbo]

Yep, we need to re-asses his suspension set up, we did the same on the race car but Nigel only has single adjustable shocks and we need to increase the compression damping but not rebound. I'll put up charts (Nigel was supposed to - lol at them now shooting under the seat) as soon as I can.

good to see you posting on the site again John, You must be very pleased with your latest update on the stage 5.

well done for persivering (sp)

[wrightster]

nice to hear a success story well done to all involved.

[burnerblowout]

Nice one and excellent result. Mr J T Will the VX be back on the race agenda again or will you still be engaging in a bit of M3 stock car racing in the Kumho ??????

[Thorney]

Both VX220 race cars will be back out. Plan for VXT is either Euro Saloons or GT4, depends on testing really. Will run on slicks, wider rims with wide arch front bodywork and new coupe bodywork that we're working on. The 2.2 race car will be re-built as demo car with TB's as well. Just a question of time really but now we know the VXT race car is worth doing again and we have a series to run it in we're pretty keen. We'll still be in Kumho BMW's, the M3 is being re-specced for the series (daft running it in SportMaxx) and should be ready for Donington round (which sadly is same weekend as VX220 meet) but will try to come on the Sat anyway.

[Spindoctor]

I saw the evasive graph on the meet yesterday. Power curve is very smooth and very steep. Nigel describes power delivery as progressive. Those who went out in it were almost speechless when they got back. Did my best to have the same effect on those who went out with me in the S4.

[vxr36]

Congratualtions. I'm please you don't have the same heat issues I did nor the requirement for the fuel pump to take you above 300BHP. Really pleased for you. A bit worried about the powere being capped at such a high value without internals though.... TMS told me I had to have them for over 300BHP and changed almost everything. They probably know better now though. Look forward to seeing you soon

[Karlosfandango]

just need to get those NA's sorted now

[techieboy]

Double

[vxr36]

I have a few questions if you get time.... What have you done about lowering the compression ratios without changing the pistons? What exhaust and bore are you using? Does your turbo waste to atmosphere or recirc? Also you mention that the engine runs cooler than before. Just to clarify my previous comments the heat issues I was experiencing were not engine temperature related. In fact my water was running at 83 (with the replacement rad) and oil varied between 80 and 97 dependent on driving style. The heat issues that I had were engine bay temps. The manifold glowed orange and the heat was not channelled out of the bay effectively. It was this heat and not the engine temps that melted stuff. Where are you based? I would love to come and compare notes. I had a number of additional components replaced as they could not cope with the increased scale of measurement so I would be interested to see how you overcame these issues without replacing them. Again, many congrats on joining the stage 5 club. It was a lonely place. Although strictly speaking either you are a 4.7 or I am a 5.3 as I have had a few more bits done - LOL

Edited by vxr36, 01 July 2008 - 08:05 AM.

[iram]

I have a few questions if you get time....

What have you done about lowering the compression ratios without changing the pistons?

What exhaust and bore are you using?

Does your turbo waste to atmosphere or recirc?

Also you mention that the engine runs cooler than before. Just to clarify my previous comments the heat issues I was experiencing were not engine temperature related. In fact my water was running at 83 (with the replacement rad) and oil varied between 80 and 97 dependent on driving style. The heat issues that I had were engine bay temps. The manifold glowed orange and the heat was not channelled out of the bay effectively. It was this heat and not the engine temps that melted stuff.

Where are you based? I would love to come and compare notes. I had a number of additional components replaced as they could not cope with the increased scale of measurement so I would be interested to see how you overcame these issues without replacing them.

Again, many congrats on joining the stage 5 club. It was a lonely place. Although strictly speaking either you are a 4.7 or I am a 5.3 as I have had a few more bits done - LOL

Without trying to be to obtuse, i don't know the answers to most of your questions, and wouldn't want to lead you down the garden path with any wrong info! and to be fair im not really interested in the technical detail! all im interested in is it works and i enjoy it!
as regards to the STAGE thing iv always found it a bit anal regards to mechanical fundamentals as they will change due to technological advancements and really should be purely be interpreted into hp ranges!
im sure john will update his web site regards to what you get,with what for how much at some point

what i can say is i will be going to the chase meet and i can open the boot for any one who wants a look there isn't a lot to see in all fairness lol just bits un bobs! it does shift and im sure if you are behind or in front you will probably notice and i have a passenger seat if anyone wants to get in!

regards iram

[vxr36]

it literally takes off, hardly surprising when we first ran the race car at Snetterton even the commentator saw that the car actually lifted its front wheels off the ground such was the power.

Really! Wow I 've only ever seen a few methanol 'funny' cars do that. You'll have to develop something to keep the front down with all that power.

Same as you said about your race car too. I wish mine could do that! LOL

[iram]

it literally takes off, hardly surprising when we first ran the race car at Snetterton even the commentator saw that the car actually lifted its front wheels off the ground such was the power.

Really! Wow I 've only ever seen a few methanol 'funny' cars do that. You'll have to develop something to keep the front down with all that power.

Same as you said about your race car too. I wish mine could do that! LOL