88 replies to this topic

[davehutchinson]

There's something I'm not getting here. The 0-60 time of a VXT is 4.7. There aren't many cars that can beat that at the 25K mark. - Ferrari 360/ Porche GT3 not much better at 4.5. The subaru sti spec C is 'only' 4.3......how can the VXT feel so slow? sure you didn't have your foot on the wrong pedal in that cramped cockpit?

0-60 is a terrible figure to quote, it's almost worthless. In gear acceleration and speed after 60mph are where the differences are apparant. The VXT is 12s to 100 (most likely a lot more in normal hands) whereas cars like the F40, GT2 and Nobles are sub 10s or even sub 9! That's a huge difference overall. To give you an idea, by the time my VXT is at 100mph (assuming perfect launches from both cars) the GT2 would be at nigh on 130mph. Now the VXT isn't slow in the slightest but it's slower in "feel" than the Spec C STI.

You are correct in saying from looking at 0-60 there's no difference, it's rather superficial when you get to sub 5s anyway but I think it has more to do with the sheer traction that the rally reps have, if you've ever seen one take off from the mark you'll see exactly what I mean.

[TurboTomato]

There's only one car I've driven with more brutal acceleration and that was the Ferrari F40

You've driven an F40??

I have a newfound respect for you!! One of my fave cars of all time!!

I must add that when I first drove the VXT on a short test drive, and with less than 200 miles on the clock, I was also a little disappointed with the acceleration

[davehutchinson]

Very very very very quick car, far too scary as a road car.... hopefully I'll get the chance with an Enzo when they come up for sale in 12 months.

[Mutt & Jeff]

Very interesting & well written write up. I, like you agree that the brakes on the VX are great (compared to just about any other road car) until they get hot & the ABS starts to have a nervous brakedown (the upgrade on the NA makes this loads better than the original setup). Now I know that I'm a bit of a late braking nutter but the VX's light weight and pedal feel give me enormous confidence, hence I've always been amazed at people complaining about the brakes. The only time I thought the brakes were crap was when I got the car back from the dealers last time. They'd had the car for 2 weeks to fix my footwell water leak & the car had hardly been driven but had been soaked often. I found the car just wouldn't stop & the pedal feel I was used to had gone Inspection of the discs revealed some fine but deep circular rust ruts that didn't go away until they'd had about 3 days of banzai driving.......and then all was well again! The point of my post (yeah, sorry to be so slow to make it ) is that I wonder if the reason some people don't like the brakes is that they don't use the car often enough? I exclude all people who do a lot of track work, I'm basing my observations on road use.

[Gedi]

Dave, where do you live? I need to pop round your house one day for a nosey hehe

[TurboTomato]

Very very very very quick car, far too scary as a road car.... hopefully I'll get the chance with an Enzo when they come up for sale in 12 months.

OMG, your dad isn't going to buy a 2nd hand Enzo is he??

[Gedi]

Yeah, the brakes felt great to me too. Even if I do ever get to the point where I start to get brake fade, I know its nothing a better set of pads, fluid and braided hoses won't sort. It has disks the same diameter as family cars twice its weight would normally run. Thats enough to keep me happy, for now. Not that I won't be looking into a set of AP 4 pots though

[davehutchinson]

Brakes are pretty damn good even as standard, plenty of feel and stopping power. Must agree with M&J though about the ABS, it's not so bad on the Turbo but it's quite unnerving when you have to stop quickly and the N/A ABS kicks in removing pretty much all of your stopping power. I had my discs changed for black diamond combi's with greenstuff pads, now those really were ferrocious. TT - Yes it's next on the list.

[TurboTomato]

TT - Yes it's next on the list.

Hello new bestest friend

[goofballs]

Two things with regards to the power delivery. ...Having tracked a Radical for 6 months, driven M3 race cars, and nobles and done a number of track days, I can tell you that a 10,000 mile VXT is fast enough for the road. On the track...err better than a standard Lotus, but not much else. As Thorney said, the VX is setup for the road. ...second the engine is a lot tighter than you would ever imagine. I drove a 3,500 mile AMD tuned 250 bhp VXT and it didn't feel quicker than my standard VXT at 20K miles. This can be confirmed by Jay on the forum. I truly believe that the AMD tune was correct (AMDs tuning was proven in an independent rolling road comparison of a dozen VX and VXTs last year, all on the same day and the same conditions), however for some reason Vauxhall's unit will not come into its prime until it has reached 10K. ...I used to have a tuned integrale evo, with the turbo coming in at 3,000rpm, and the VXT still feels slower, but that is the nature of a flat torque curve...as opposed to a heavy spike of torque at mid range. A fast spinning small turbo with a wide flat torque curve makes the car a king of the B-road (drive a rally derived Subaru with anti-lag and you will get similar characteristics to a wide flat torque curve - instant power across the rev range). I will guarantee you that a high lag, Jap spec Subaru would not be any quicker down a DRY B-road than the a well driven VXT. It is easier to drive a four wheel drive, and it does not give the pure enjoyment the VX will give you. Anyway, to conclude, drive a 10K mile VXT and it will feel a lot quicker, but don't expect it to feel like a turbo'd rally car. cheers

[Gedi]

I can tell you that a 10,000 mile VXT is fast enough for the road

Fast enough on the road for who?
I think the power issue is different for different people. Hence the NA has plenty power for some, but others are choosing to ring as much as possible out of their VXT.
The 200bhp will never be enough for me. I knew this before I even went for a test drive. I have already priced up my mods

Anyway, to conclude, drive a 10K mile VXT and it will feel a lot quicker, but don't expect it to feel like a turbo'd rally car

I don't expect the feel of the car to be similar to that of a r4lly car, but I do expect the acceleration to be similar (obviously harder to put the power down)
After I have lifted my boost from the 0.8 vauxhall spec, to around 1.2 (as the STI) the kick from the turbo will be much more apparant.

I'm not a racing car driver, so a flat tourque curve is not essential for me. I like the fun factor on the road. A sudden brutal surge of boost at around 3.5k as your heart struggles to flow blood round your body due to the g-forces is my kinda fun
Fighting with the car as it squirms up the road trying to break traction
......danm i've gone and got myself excited now.....hehe......I need my turbo hit.....quick someone give me a fix!!!

[goofballs]

Fighting with the car as it squirms up the road trying to break traction

Fighting with the car as it squirms INTO THE BUSHES, when there is no trick four wheel drive system to help out with the enourmous spike in torque




cheers

[JimH]

......danm i've gone and got myself excited now.....hehe......I need my turbo hit.....quick someone give me a fix!!!

If acceleration means so much to you then you are wasting your time in cars. It's a motorbike you want. After a decent superbike ALL cars feel pig slow.

[Gedi]

Fighting with the car as it squirms INTO THE BUSHES, when there is no trick four wheel drive system to help out with the enourmous spike in torque

hehe, I can only pray I know my limit and force myself to back off before the unthinkable happens. It doesn't bear thinking about, but your right

I know Thorneys does this now, as he told me his VXT breaks traction in 4th gear
All the board regulars told me he's an absolutley auful driver, yet he keeps his on the road...........lol.....just kidding.
Seriously, maybe I can pick Thorneys brains about issues like keeping the car in a straight line under power.
I know my scoob used to squirm and skate all over the road under full boost in an almost crab like fashion. I actually nearly managed to spin the scoob a number of times whilst travelling in a straight line.


Jim, I would absolutley love a bike, but I have respect for my family feelings and my own life, as I know that if I got one, I wouldn't see the year out.

[goofballs]

RACELOGIC TRACTION CONTROL, dial in as much wheelspin as you like 0-100%. I would seriously consider it, Minime with a tuned NA used to have it on his car, and he was raving about it. Whether you are a good driver or not is irrespective, the car does not have any form of LSD or traction control, with large amounts of power the car will be difficult to control in the dry. In the wet with a spike full of torque, you will end up in the bushes. The car's weight is centred around the middle, which can make it spin very easily, the Subaru, in comparison has the weight at the front, which makes the handling a lot easier to control. It wasn't by chance that they banned group B cars with a light mid-engined setup in the 80s. The best drivers in the world were planting them in the hedges. The turbo characteristics in the VXT were not set for chance, there is no manufacturer on earth that has designed a laggy turbo in a lightweight, traction control free car. The Noble M12 has a very trick V6 mondeo engine with very small twin turbos, this was a very smart move. The car has the flat torque characteristics of a V10 (try driving a dodge viper), combined with a very light engine that does not compromise the handling characteristics. The ultimate incarnation of the best engine is the Merc engine in the Pagani Zonda, torque anywhere, anytime, any gear. And the car is pretty light although not quite in the Macca F1 league. cheers

[Purebob]

Amen Jimh. Superbikes cream all cars in acceleration, and when ridden well also point to point.

[caleebra]

Isn't it rather futile to be comparing cars of very different origins and purpose To me, it's a bit like - "I think my MTB would be much faster down the hill than your racer." Without specifying whether the route down the hill is mountainous terrain or a tarmac road. edit to clarify my point, as I'm a bungling fool.

Edited by caleebra, 23 February 2004 - 02:38 PM.

[streetboy]

Gedi, I think you'd be dissapointed if you paxed in my VXT. There's no 'kick in the back' that you might be hoping for - the delivery is very smooth ... smoother than standard in fact. The VXT is an unassisted car. If all the power came in at 3k revs the rears would break free, the back would try to overtake the front, and you'd get nowhere very quickly. Buy a VXT, take it on track, then tell me that you're only interested in straight line thrills.

[JimH]

Isn't it rather futile to be comparing cars of very different origins and purpose

I agree entirely. It's just that if acceleration is your bag at the expense of everything else and you don't have a bazzillion pounds to waste on some very silly machinery then superbikes are the way to go.

[Thorney]

I'm testing Racelogic TC at the moment and thus far it's a complete giggle....the purpose was to test it as a safety feature but thats a load of bollocks....it's a racing feature and naff all to do with safety I won't give the game away too much until I've finished testing (need some more road miles and a dry track day for that) but it is completely unlike TC on a road car. For example on my M3 it kicks in and you can feel it suck power from the wheels, so I turn it off most of the time. The Racelogic system works on the injectors on each cylinder and whilst you can hear it work (sounds like a missfire) the actual sensation is one where you accelerate rather than slow down. It really is quite addititive. I'm certainly slower when I turn it off, however mine was getting quite tiring to drive (especially in the wet) as it really does have a lot of power now and still scares me silly on the road, 3rd gear overtaking cars now is a question of how much room I need before the next set so that I don't run into the back of them overtaking 1 car is a bit pointless and I look for a row to do now to make better use of petrol I also agree with the mileage issue, mine has 14k on it now and I swear it gets faster with each mile. I'll do a full write up on the Racelogic system (also being written up for Total Vauxhall magazine) when I've finished testing.......you know me I like to be thorough