19 replies to this topic

[james141]

I need to install an outdoor 16amp plug socket with RCD something like this but with only one plug:

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...2|39:2|240:1318

I have been reading about but I cant find a definitive answer.

Is it possible to take a spur from the internal ring main or does it need its own feed from the consumer unit?

Some things I have read say yes and some say no.

[The Knobs]

I need to install an outdoor 16amp plug socket with RCD something like this but with only one plug:

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...2|39:2|240:1318

I have been reading about but I cant find a definitive answer.

Is it possible to take a spur from the internal ring main or does it need its own feed from the consumer unit?

Some things I have read say yes and some say no.

By rights a 16A should have its own circuit. Put in a 13A weatherproof socket with rcd and then plug in a caravan adaptor to use the blue plug. This is assuming you are not using anything that will actually draw 16A.

Whats it for ?

[james141]

I need to install an outdoor 16amp plug socket with RCD something like this but with only one plug:

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...2|39:2|240:1318

I have been reading about but I cant find a definitive answer.

Is it possible to take a spur from the internal ring main or does it need its own feed from the consumer unit?

Some things I have read say yes and some say no.

By rights a 16A should have its own circuit. Put in a 13A weatherproof socket with rcd and then plug in a caravan adaptor to use the blue plug. This is assuming you are not using anything that will actually draw 16A.

Whats it for ?

Its for a hot tub, the tub can do 2 modes, 13a using a std plug and 16 amps using a 16 amp plug or hardwired.

In the 13 amp config it load sheads and switches the heater off if the blowers are on so im guessing in the 16 amp mode it must use anywhere between 13A and 16A

Im thinking it might just be easier to go the 13 amp route!

Edited by james141, 09 April 2009 - 06:51 PM.

[The Knobs]

I need to install an outdoor 16amp plug socket with RCD something like this but with only one plug:

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...2|39:2|240:1318

I have been reading about but I cant find a definitive answer.

Is it possible to take a spur from the internal ring main or does it need its own feed from the consumer unit?

Some things I have read say yes and some say no.

By rights a 16A should have its own circuit. Put in a 13A weatherproof socket with rcd and then plug in a caravan adaptor to use the blue plug. This is assuming you are not using anything that will actually draw 16A.

Whats it for ?

Its for a hot tub, the tub can do 2 modes, 13a using a std plug and 16 amps using a 16 amp plug or hardwired.

In the 13 amp config it load sheads and switches the heater off if the blowers are on so im guessing in the 16 amp mode it must use anywhere between 13A and 16A

Im thinking it might just be easier to go the 13 amp route!

Our tub has a 3KW heater which yours probably is. With the voltage now being 230V that means 13.04 Amps for the heater. The blower takes hardly any load so i would go the 13A route as the worst it will do is blow the fuse. Its very unlikely it will ever blow a fuse anyway as the heater is switching on and off via a stat and the blowers only run for 20 mins at a time. Just make sure that where you take the spur from is actually on the ring.

Be prepared for a massive hike in your electric bill.

[james141]

Our tub has a 3KW heater which yours probably is. With the voltage now being 230V that means 13.04 Amps for the heater. The blower takes hardly any load so i would go the 13A route as the worst it will do is blow the fuse. Its very unlikely it will ever blow a fuse anyway as the heater is switching on and off via a stat and the blowers only run for 20 mins at a time. Just make sure that where you take the spur from is actually on the ring.

Be prepared for a massive hike in your electric bill.

The one im getting has a 2Kw heater and a 3HP blower which is 2.24 kw then add a bit more for the smaller circ pump, O3 generator, control gear and lights.

With everything on it must be pushing the full 16 amps.

I know about the electricity bill, I found that the hard way, I currently have a Spa in a box which is a portable spa with foam sides and a soft lid so it doesnt hold the heat very well.

I think the new one should actually save me a lot of money!

[Baron Von Scubadaddy]

I know this sounds a bit dull but you should probably run a separate circuit for it. If you have a 2kw heater and a 2.24kw blower your gonna pull ........4300/220 = 20A ish If you spur this off the ring make sure your not making toast or boiling the kettle whilst your stewing in the Tub !! MUST BE RCCD OR RCBO PROTECTED you could change the breaker in the fuse board to protect the whole circuit if you really want to spur it off the ring.

[Crazyfrog (Fab)]

Be prepared for a massive hike in your electric bill.

didnt know you had a spa tim join the club mine is a 3 kw american engine and the body was made in france in angers and he like electricity as well
fitted by my ladie electrician and she use the top stuff wish i knew you could have done it for free
see you monday and dont forget my switch

[FLD]

In our HSE ruled modern world you cant do either unless your part p'd. However, speaking as a real person who has rewired most of his house you'll need a new circuit for that. Its not that hard to fit a new breaker and run a new cable. Dont forget though if you go ouside with it then use an armoured cable. To meet building regs the armour wires need to be earthed. Not too much of pita to do as you just run it out of a gland box and ground that. HTH PS If you trawl ebay for old coloured cable no one will know its a new bit of wiring so you wont need a part-p certificate for it. Good if you ever move but illegal to do.

[The Knobs]

In our HSE ruled modern world you cant do either unless your part p'd. However, speaking as a real person who has rewired most of his house you'll need a new circuit for that. Its not that hard to fit a new breaker and run a new cable. Dont forget though if you go ouside with it then use an armoured cable. To meet building regs the armour wires need to be earthed. Not too much of pita to do as you just run it out of a gland box and ground that.

HTH

PS If you trawl ebay for old coloured cable no one will know its a new bit of wiring so you wont need a part-p certificate for it. Good if you ever move but illegal to do.

You can do what you like in your own house, only if you pay someone to do the job does it have to comply with building regs part p. Hence diy shops are allowed to sell stuff to the general public. Part P is a complete fuckup.

email me through my website on my sig if you need someone to do it.


Fab. PIR switches are not in yet, so will have to post them on, or fit them when we come down in May.

Edited by The Knobs, 09 April 2009 - 09:15 PM.

[FLD]

Thats interesting. My local councils website suggests you still have to meet regs. Makes me feel a little better about what I've done.

[The Knobs]

Thats interesting. My local councils website suggests you still have to meet regs. Makes me feel a little better about what I've done.

Thats the whole problem with Part p. No diyer can possibly do any installation work to comply with the latest IEE wiring regs, so why can they go to wickes, homebase etc and buy electrical gear ? Yet we tradesmen that did a 4 year apprenticeship and have to do update courses every few years, then have to pay around £500 a year to be part p registered, p*ss take.

[james141]

Some good tips thanks guys. I was thinking if it was coming off the ring main I would do it myself but if it has to have its own feed I will probably get it done as I cant be arsed lifting floorboards etc Like you say it would probably be fine until, I had it on with a kettle or the coffee machine etc. I think to start with I will stick to the 13amp route and see how it goes, its not that much hardship having the heater turn off while the blowers are on except in the depths of winter but even then its not so bad. This is how my current tub works.

Edited by james141, 09 April 2009 - 09:39 PM.

[Baron Von Scubadaddy]

we tradesmen that did a 4 year apprenticeship and have to do update courses every few years, then have to pay around £500 a year to be part p registered, p*ss take.

Makes me sick

some jam roll can do a p*ss pot course and run around now doing sparks work

I worked really hard to obtain my approved.

but because I no longer work in the industry I'am deemed
not qualified

I do have BS7671
what a waste of 4 days that was.

I'm building a house at the moment
I've got to get a mate of mine to come and check and test my work !

[james141]

I think I have figured out the plan using the hot tub in 13amp mode:

I have a socked inside a cupboard in the kitchen so:

1.) Spur of this socket (if its not already a spur) with one of these: http://cgi.ebay.co.u...1QQcmdZViewItem

2.) Cable through wall outside and in to plastic trunking all the way to the tub (not that far) using std ring main gauge twin and earth.

How does that sound?

Im sure the regs say there needs to be an isolator switch, does the RCD spur plate count or do I need to put one in?

Edited by james141, 09 April 2009 - 09:57 PM.

[Baron Von Scubadaddy]

I don't know James your total load is around 20A with out lighting would be much better to run new circuit of the correct size (2.5mm) and backed up correctly do you have solid floors ? you must be able to get from your consumer unit to outside quite simply if not. If you run a SWA cable you can clip this neatly and it will look fine they aren't hard to make off. I'll talk you through it over the phone if you need a bit of help. Some times it's worth doing things properly ie when your using water and electricity and points outside the home.

[james141]

Thanks BVS, I think you misunderstand the the spa electrical configuration. As the blower and heater are the 2 devices that use the most power. It has 2 ways that it can be wired internally: Mode 1 - 13 amp use - If air blower is on the heater will go off/never come on, thus keeping the load well below 13 amps Mode 2 - 16 amp use - Air blower and fan can both be on at the same time. So if it is configured for mode 1 it will only need a 13 amp supply as the 2kw heater only works out at about 8 amps Edit: the main problem with installing a dedicated 16 amp run is that the house has hardwood flooring and I don't really fancy taking that up

Edited by james141, 09 April 2009 - 10:31 PM.

[Crazyfrog (Fab)]

Fab. PIR switches are not in yet, so will have to post them on, or fit them when we come down in May.

you mean my life insurance provider will be please

[Baron Von Scubadaddy]

Thanks BVS, I think you misunderstand the the spa electrical configuration.

As the blower and heater are the 2 devices that use the most power.

It has 2 ways that it can be wired internally:

Mode 1 - 13 amp use - If air blower is on the heater will go off/never come on, thus keeping the load well below 13 amps

Mode 2 - 16 amp use - Air blower and fan can both be on at the same time.

So if it is configured for mode 1 it will only need a 13 amp supply as the 2kw heater only works out at about 8 amps

Edit: the main problem with installing a dedicated 16 amp run is that the house has hardwood flooring and I don't really fancy taking that up

I feel your pain

[james141]

Thanks BVS, I think you misunderstand the the spa electrical configuration.

As the blower and heater are the 2 devices that use the most power.

It has 2 ways that it can be wired internally:

Mode 1 - 13 amp use - If air blower is on the heater will go off/never come on, thus keeping the load well below 13 amps

Mode 2 - 16 amp use - Air blower and fan can both be on at the same time.

So if it is configured for mode 1 it will only need a 13 amp supply as the 2kw heater only works out at about 8 amps

Edit: the main problem with installing a dedicated 16 amp run is that the house has hardwood flooring and I don't really fancy taking that up

I feel your pain

Lol nothing like sitting in cold bubble filled water, it would be like scuba diving in the uk again

Im going to go the 13amp route and if it becomes an issue I can rewire the feed and it is just a jumper setting on the hot tub that needs to be changed from 13amp to 16amp mode.

Thanks for all the help everyone

Edited by james141, 10 April 2009 - 10:32 AM.

[james141]

Right quick question, acording to the regs I need to fit an outside isolator switch. It will be a 13 amp spur. The switch I have bought is 3 pole and also has connections for earth and neutral The question is do I: 1.) just switch the live 2.) Switch the live and neutral 3.) switch live neutural and earth I am guessing 1 or 2, probably 2? What do you think?