357 replies to this topic

[dude]

Ricky2772, on Dec 3 2003, 10:37 , said:

nono, my plan is to make de-compressed forged pistons (lower floor) and stronger, lighter rods, but that remain the same dimensions-wise.

I'd rather make forged rods than drill the dubious hole in the stock rods, that appear to be already the "weak" component on a charged engine....

edited to say I dunno how saab aero could fit, in Italy we only have a 2.3 turbo aero, that most likely have different bore and stroke...do you have a saab 2.2 turbo on swedish market?

saab has changed to a destroked crank and new rods and pistons.

did you get any technical specs (dur/lift/revrange) from mantasport about the sports/comp-cams.

//anders

[Ricky2772]

no. i did not considered cams along with the charger-kit... they told me to ship'em the stock piston + rod, and they will calculate the decrease from 10:1 to 8,75:1. can such evaluation be done w/out knowing the combustion chamber volume?

Edited by Ricky2772, 03 December 2003 - 11:09 AM.

[dude]

Ricky2772, on Dec 3 2003, 10:58 , said:

no.
they told me to ship'em the stock piston + rod, and they will calculate the decrease from 10:1 to 8,75:1.
can such evaluation be done w/out knowing the combustion chamber volume?

i thought that you had spoken with them about an n/a kit with cams/piston/rods.
and it was the specs for these camshafts i ment.

the sunfire ecotec is the same engine as our z22se. i can´t see why the need your parts to measure the combustionchanges for the pistons.

i´m going to keep my original rods and piston (after reading the finnish page), but change camshaft (if i get some specs on them from mantasport).

//anders

[clipping_point]

dude, on Dec 3 2003, 10:49 , said:

saab has changed to a destroked crank and new rods and pistons.


//anders

Anders!

Has the piston the same dia. as the Opel 2,2? Does it give any reduction of the compression ratio?

[Ricky2772]

same article, better pics....
http://www.year2032.com/ecotec.htm


I found a US gasket company that offers different thicknesses hi-perf. copper gaskets.....probably way better choice than the "sandwich" of stock ones used in the delta kit....

http://www.scegasket...alog.html#table

page pdf 10 is were the ecotec gaskets are...
I inquired about the correct thickness for 8,75 ratio...

[dude]

it´s the same bore on 2.0 and 2.2. only stroke is different. //anders

[Ricky2772]

found those datas about the ecotec 2.0 supercharged.....sweet... ..is it available already?!?!? ....compression rate is 9,5:1 2004 Ecotec 2.0 Liter Supercharged Engine Preliminary Specifications Type: 2.0L inline 4-cylinder with supercharger Displacement: 1998 cc Compression ratio: 9.5:1 Valve configuration: dual overhead camshafts (4 valves per cylinder) Valve lifters: hydraulic roller finger follower Firing order: 1-3-4-2 Bore & stroke: 86 x 86 mm Bore ctr. to ctr.: 96 mm Supercharger: Eaton M62 helical roots compressor Intercooler: water to air Max. boost pressure: 12 psi Pulley ratio: 1.85:1 Oil cooling: oil cooled pistons and direct mount oil cooler Fuel type: gasoline (premium unleaded recommended) Fuel system: sequential fuel injection with high pressure (56 psi) Fuel shut off: 6500 rpm Intake manifold: high flow, low restriction with integrated intercooler system Throttle body: 68-mm electronic throttle control Ignition system: high energy coil-on-plug Horsepower: 200 hp @ 6200 (Estimate - final figures in fall 2003) Torque: (lb-ft): 200 lb-ft @ 4400 (Estimate - final figures in fall 2003) Spark plugs: platinum tip (1.5-mm gap ) Oil: 5W30 / 7 quarts with filter change Materials Block: aluminum lost foam casting Cylinder head: aluminum semi-permanent mold casting Intake manifold: aluminum Crankshaft: forged steel with induction hardened fillet Camshafts: cast iron Connecting Rods: forged steel Pistons: high strength aluminum Assembly site: Kaiserslautern, Germany

Edited by Ricky2772, 03 December 2003 - 02:11 PM.

[clipping_point]

Ricky2772, on Dec 3 2003, 10:58 , said:

........... calculate the decrease from 10:1 to 8,75:1.
can such evaluation be done w/out knowing the combustion chamber volume?

If the bore is 86 mm and the stroke is 94,6 mm that means that the swept volume is 549,5 cc. If the compression ratio is 10:1 then the chamber volume is 61 cc since (549,5+61)/61 is 10:1 and if the compratio is 8,75 then the volume is 549,5/(8,75-1)=70,9 cc

[dude]

clipping_point, on Dec 3 2003, 16:23 , said:

Ricky2772, on Dec 3 2003, 10:58 , said:

........... calculate the decrease from 10:1 to 8,75:1.
can such evaluation be done w/out knowing the combustion chamber volume? 

If the bore is 86 mm and the stroke is 94,6 mm that means that the swept volume is 549,5 cc. If the compression ratio is 10:1 then the chamber volume is 61 cc since (549,5+61)/61 is 10:1 and if the compratio is 8,75 then the volume is 549,5/(8,75-1)=70,9 cc

this calculation is based on a flat pistonroof, but you have to consider the negative dome and valvepockets on the piston to get the right shape.

[Ricky2772]

filling the cylinder concavity with a graduated syringe full of water would lead to the right amount of water needed? (in cc's? )

[clipping_point]

Yes, but you know (theoretically) that the chamber volume is 61 cc since (549,5+61)/61 is 10:1. Therefore that each increase of the head gasket thickness gives 5,8 cc since the cylinder square area is 8,6^2*3,1415=58,1 cm2. Approx 2mm then..

[Ricky2772]

so, the perf. copper gasket that is available in 0,080" (inches I guess?!?) would correspond to (0,080x2,54)= 2,03 mm ... ....that would be the correct thickness to achieve 8,75:1 ? ...getting lost here...not very gifted in math!

[clipping_point]

More as 0,070" I think: " 0,08 0,08 0,07 0,07 0,06 mm 2,03 1,91 1,78 1,65 1,52 Increased cc 11,79 11,05 10,31 9,58 8,84 Original cc 10:1 61,00 61,00 61,00 61,00 61,00 New cc 72,79 72,05 71,31 70,58 69,84 New comp. 8,55:1 8,63:1 8,71:1 8,79:1 8,87:1

Edited by clipping_point, 03 December 2003 - 11:41 PM.

[rasputin]

i ll go get me coat

[clipping_point]

Or as a diagram

Attached Files

•  vcompcurve.jpg   52.52KB   0 downloads

[Ricky2772]

mmmm.....your calculations of 61cc at 10:1 INCLUDE the standard gasket.....that we don't know how thick it is......and according to the graph 10:1 would mean "no gasket"....shouldn't be taken into account?!?

[clipping_point]

Yes, true! Wonder how thick the standard one is

Edited by clipping_point, 04 December 2003 - 05:25 PM.

[clipping_point]

Ricky2772, on Dec 3 2003, 14:10 , said:

Supercharger: Eaton M62 helical roots compressor
Intercooler: water to air
Max. boost pressure: 12 psi
Pulley ratio: 1.85:1
Oil cooling: oil cooled pistons and direct mount oil cooler

Aha, GM will use the spray cooling too!? Interesting

[Ricky2772]

clipping_point, on Dec 4 2003, 19:19 , said:

Ricky2772, on Dec 3 2003, 14:10 , said:

Supercharger:  Eaton M62 helical roots compressor
Intercooler: water to air
Max. boost pressure: 12 psi
Pulley ratio: 1.85:1
Oil cooling: oil cooled pistons and direct mount oil cooler

Aha, GM will use the spray cooling too!? Interesting

yes, but it will have a more poweful oil pump from start....

I was told by several "experts" :-P that drilling a hole in the conrod would cause a decrease in the oil pressure (and lubrication...) everywhere else, acting like a leak....so I don't know what is really better....

[dude]

i got some answers from mantaparts about their competition cams. specs: duration 222 degree at .050" and valvelift .464". translated to european its: 288 degree at 0-lift and 11.8mm valvelift. got a packagedeal for piston/rods/camshafts. 1600$. //anders