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Ecotec Supercharger


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#101 speedyK

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Posted 21 August 2003 - 08:57 PM

:groupjump:

Been out in the Delta-Motor supercharged Speedster this afternoon. :D :D :D

Summary:"Want you, need you, got to have you, child – great God in Heaven you know I do!"

:jump:

I'm very, very happy with what I found.

Firstly, the car remains completely civilised - every day use no problem whatsoever. By this I mean there is no obtrusive noise, no erratic running or response. IMO it is really well sorted.

Secondly the car feels "right" - the increased performance is readily accepted by the chassis without any drama.

Thirdly, changing from the N/A, you are not overwhelmed by any aspect of it – the characteristics are similar to a larger capacity N/A – it simply feels meatier. Meatier than the N/A and meatier than the Turbo. I know it's a subjective thing and down to personal taste, but I found the power delivery with the supercharger far more satisfying than the "little engine but push me and I'll wake up" feel that turbos, including the VXT have. The supercharger really suits the car better IMO.

After trying the Turbo at Boxberg testing ground early in the year, I felt happy to be in the N/A with its sublimely controllable throttle response – I personally feel more "at one" with the car in the N/A because of this. A major question for me was how the supercharger would feel, would it loose the subtle magic for mere extra horsepower? Never having driven a supercharged car before, I wondered if it would feel "forced" when you just want to cruise. All my fears were groundless. :D

With the top off and the sun out, I've been pottering around town, cruising lakeside lanes, blasting down empty back roads between open fields where I "dreamed" that I was hitting around 185kmh in no time in situations that I reckon I would only see around 165kmh in my N/A dreams ;)

Put it this way… I'm hoping to do more than just catch and outbrake the poorly driven 911 Turbos into corners now - they'll have to do a little better to reel me in again on the straights B). And this is all on a standard exhaust and I'm sure there's room for more bhp after the official test ;) - might even worry the well driven 911 Turbos! :lol:

Anyway, situation is this. The kit is finished but can't be sold for use on Swiss cars yet because of outstanding exhaust emissions test. Although EURO 4 that VX/Speedster complies with is not compulsory, GM tested it as EURO 4 for its Swiss approval and the authorities have decided that tuned cars must maintain the emissions norm reached by the standard car. This meant more work and delay, but now they are ready and waiting for the test.... :sleepy: :poke: officials take their time.

What this means is I can't get one yet, but you UK types could. Talked to the boss, Felix Wyder, today and he said would need it for 3 days. He said a week when I mentioned UK interest in Spring, so they must have got it more sorted now, but I would reckon on a week to be safe. If you wanted a kit, he reckons it's fairly starightforward to fit - you'd have to sort something out re. shipping, warranty & price.
Cost for Swiss customers for supply and fitting, including VAT @ 7.6% and official registration of tuning with authorities is around 10,500 Swiss francs.

No figure for weight of the supercharger and bits and pieces, but mechanic reckoned around ten kilos - seems about right.

Asked for power graph - boss said he really wants to wait until emissions test cleared then send me one. They did have one on a broschure I've got from early on when they were talking about 195-200bhp. Now they say 200bhp "officially", actually 205-211bhp (mechanic says they've seen 220 under good conditions - but I wouldn't reckon on that) and 250- 270 Nm torque over a wide range. Really don't think they are trying to hide anything, the boss just likes his things to be "right" I think, so wants to wait till all is approved in current tune for Switzerland use before printing final figures.

Obviously, no-one wants to buy if they don't know these figures. He'll be letting me know when it's all approved and I'll pass it on here. :)

The test car was on new Delta-Motor rims and Dunlops: front 7x17" with 205's, rear 8x18" with 245's - I'll post piccies below. As the rubber was new, it wasn't fully usable I suppose, but felt quite good apart from the accentuated tendency to follow any road imperfections. Not too happy about that - still think front 16" on 195's as per Ricky's set-up is the way to go. I asked the boss about 16" fronts but he says he got so many requests for 18" rears (typical, I'm afraid), that he went that way. Agrees more unsprung weight probably. Has not compared rim/tyre weight so no figures, he could do if someone really needed to know.

I'm convinced it's the right way to go for me and hope to have it all sorted by next Spring. I'm almost certainly going to get the Ohlins suspension fitted at the same time and probably Opel drilled discs (their Brembo package is not finished yet).

The car I drove was still on standard suspension with the new rims. Took these pics today:

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#102 speedyK

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Posted 21 August 2003 - 09:02 PM

Delta-Motor supercharger

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#103 speedyK

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Posted 21 August 2003 - 09:05 PM

Detail left of engine bay:

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#104 speedyK

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Posted 21 August 2003 - 09:06 PM

Right of engine bay:

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#105 speedyK

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Posted 21 August 2003 - 09:09 PM

Delta-Motor wheel 8x18" rear with Dunlop 245/35 W

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#106 speedyK

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Posted 21 August 2003 - 09:12 PM

Front 7x17" with 205 Dunlop

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#107 speedyK

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Posted 21 August 2003 - 09:14 PM

Last pic! Looks quite good, but weight???

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#108 Thorney

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Posted 21 August 2003 - 09:18 PM

This sounds like a sweet set up for NA owners. I agree on the 18" wheels though - we considered them for the GT cars and decided they would overwhelm the chassis and binned the idea. Disagree on 16" wheels though, testing has shown 17" are the best solution with the correct suspesnion set up. So when you getting it done? :groupjump:

#109 Jim_Cross

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Posted 21 August 2003 - 09:22 PM

Nice one Speedy, sounds very promising! :) A few questions: 1. By the looks of the pictures, the supercharger goes toward the cabin-end of the engine - does this mean you don't lose the boot (as you do with the Turbo Technics Exige conversion) 2. Have they done any extra work to aid cooling? Superchargers get pretty hot don't they? Bearing in mind the sort of problems Vauxhall have had cooling the Turbo, I'd have thought something would need to be done with a supercharger 3. Does it get much hotter inside the car? I remember Dave (exiges) Supercharged Exige was absolutely boiling, and the heat coming off the engine was incredible! Certainly the supercharger conversion sounds ace! Not so convinced by the new wheel size though...looks much too Max Muppet to me! Hopefully it'll still be available in, oooh, about 20 years, when I might be able to afford one! :P

#110 speedyK

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Posted 21 August 2003 - 09:43 PM

Disagree on 16" wheels though, testing has shown 17" are the best solution with the correct suspesnion set up.

So when you getting it done?

In what way are 17" superior? I'm thinking of weight and limited tyre choice. Still no pics of these potential wheels?

Too late to use any more this year by the time official approval completed, so envisage early Spring. :jump:

Typo edit :rolleyes:

Edited by speedyK, 21 August 2003 - 09:45 PM.


#111 speedyK

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Posted 21 August 2003 - 09:58 PM

Nice one Speedy, sounds very promising! :)

A few questions:

1. You don't lose the boot -– absolutely standard vast N/A size still.

2. Extra work to aid cooling? No problems have been encountered even under hard tracking according to the mechanic. Lower temps than Turbo and less fall off of power. Honestly can't tell you anymore what the cooling system is like, but seems to cope fine.

3. Much hotter inside the car? Sun was beating down with top off, so can't really say. But I'm sure it won't be an issue if the VXT is bearable.


New wheel size is what many want – look at the German and Austrian forums!

In 20 years? You never know! :P

#112 Thorney

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Posted 21 August 2003 - 10:02 PM

There are intrinsic reasons in chassis design why equal sized wheels can make a difference, generally only have different sizes because the chassis was designed for it or there wasn't any other choice. Lotus designed the suspension sub frames to take 16" wheels and they also wanted a simple (read cheaper) solution to getting the front right height down. Ideally on our cars we should run the rear 10mm higher than the front. On the VX we have different suspension subframe designed to accept 17" wheels, Vxl wanted this for wahtever reason but the fact is they designed the sub chassis for 17" wheels not 16". I'm not saying going to 16" would be bad, far from it but sticking with 17" would be better if we can do it. Your point on tyres is very valid though, there is more for the Elise that we can use. However I've now spoken to three tyre manufacturers (not easy when most are on bloody holiday) and ALL are interested in road tyres for the VX not least because of the GT team. Remember Dunlop are the control tyre for the GT's and they only do it to sell tyres, we turn up and they're interested to talk ;) At the moment Pirelli have just released their special tyre for the Elise and made it available for the 17" wheel for the VX so further moves are expected. In the meantime can you PM me the number for these guys, my PM fucntion seems to have died this evening. :blink:

#113 speedyK

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Posted 21 August 2003 - 10:12 PM

sticking with 17" would be better if we can do it.

further moves are expected.

can you PM me the number

Thanks for that detailed info Imnotworthy – didn't realise the GM alteration meant 17" truly better.

Bring on those tyres!

Did the PM come through OK?

#114 Thorney

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Posted 21 August 2003 - 10:22 PM

Yep, got it. For some reason I'm getting a cgi error when I try to send a PM :ban: POS forum I reckon ;)

#115 speedyK

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Posted 21 August 2003 - 10:32 PM

Yesterday I was getting a "You do not have permission to view this page" type of message when I was trying to view some threads on the forum. Tried restarting and changing computers to no avail... :( For a moment I thought I'd been :ban: :lol:

#116 Thorney

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Posted 21 August 2003 - 11:02 PM

Over 500 members and not had to ban anyone yet.....I hope to never have to B)

#117 speedyK

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Posted 21 August 2003 - 11:07 PM

Even LOTI wasn't banned (as it would seem he is from most car forums) :P ! Let's face it, it's a friendly forum 'cos we're all reasonable, tolerant people... on the whole! :D

#118 Purebob

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Posted 21 August 2003 - 11:49 PM

Speedy, thanks for this report ! :D I'm just not sure though - superchargers add a lot of weight, and the VX-T is already a very effective forced induction tune of the VX in my opinion. While the SC will get around the nature of the VXT engine that I don't really like, if it adds noticeable weight to my girl's ass it will shift under cornering like the T and I may as well have swapped for a T :( . Sure, I could change the shocks but I could also buy a VXT and stick spax or nitrons on it to achive a very similar effect. I need a lot of convincing that its worth £5k and the loss of my warranty, mate ! Let me know how you get on ! :D If I ever tune I think I will stick with better breathing and another 20-odd horses but I remain to be convinced !

#119 streetboy

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Posted 22 August 2003 - 08:14 AM

I bought the 2.2 with a view to sticking a supercharger on it. Now I'm not so sure. The supercharger doesn't offer any more power than the turbo, adds more weight, hikes your insurance up and makes it difficult to sell the car. I'd love the power delivery of a SC, but I'd like to see 250bhp to make it worth while. The torque figures are impressive though! Imnotworthy If the VX Lightening goes into production there will be official GM superchargers for the Ecotec 2.2. Vauxhall might even offer it as an official upgrade? <_< That's the way to go in my opinion.

#120 waverunner

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Posted 22 August 2003 - 08:40 AM

Nice report Speedy. Looks a nice installation - very professionally done. Personally I'm more in favour of superchargers rather than turbos. That's a generalisation I know and doesn't necessarily work for all cars. My previous car was a very tricked-up MX-5 turbo built originally for Martin Brundle so I know BBR obviously did a very nice job for him. I also later drove a supercharged MX-5 and was amazed how much more civilised it was. On the road there was nothing in it performance-wise but it was the way the supercharger delivered the power that amazed me. As mentioned earlier in this thread I would wonder about the heat/cooling aspect of the installation although it shouldn't presnt the same problems as the turbo did in its development. The cost is the downside though - it's quite expensive and is best part of the cost of trading up from an NA to a turbo. And as Bob said its blows your warranty. On the plus side it does mean you keep a boot that's big enough to hold 3 packs of sandwiches rather than the 2 packs you can get in a VXT :D




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